Bad decision.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Danny Hamilton @ Aug 1 2007, 10:53 AM) [snapback]488616[/snapback]</div>

Reaction time.

Technically speaking, canceling CC and lifting your foot off the accelerator accomplish the same thing. However, when you begin to lose traction, the smartest thing to do (assuming no VSC here) is to lift your foot off the accelerator and try to steer your way out. No braking. ABS helps with this (and VSC even more so), but without those technologies to help, it is still best to coast & steer to regain control.

Now, had CC been engaged and you hit a patch of ice, the wheel will suddenly have less traction/resistance (or none at all) and will therefore spin much faster, which gives the false impression of acceleration. To react to this, again you would lift your foot off the accelerator... but if CC is engaged, then you either have to hit the brake or Cancel button first. Do you REALLY want an added step to do in a panic situation?

Granted, the ABS, Traction Control and VSC available on the Prius reduce the risk of such situations, but why take the chance and risk your life on the technology to save you when you can simply not engage CC in the first place?

Anyway, that is my analysis of the situation. Everyone is free to make their own judgement call on the process, though I wouldn't use CC in less than ideal conditions. B)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SW03ES @ Jul 31 2007, 10:11 PM) [snapback]488439[/snapback]</div>

I'm sorry to hear the Prius is not the car for you. (And honestly shocked you felt more comfortable in a Corolla). You should definitely investigate selling it privately. In the past month, I've had two offers on my 2005 Prius. Funny thing is, it's not for sale, just general interest.

I agree with SWO3ES -- did you have the chance to thoroughly test drive the Prius before purchasing it? I test drove the Prius 5 different times, one dealer even let me take it overnight. Granted, you can't recognize all driving conditions in a couple of days, but the OP's complaints seem like they would be obvious after driving the Prius for a couple of hours.

Either way, good luck!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bendial @ Jul 30 2007, 04:46 PM) [snapback]487684[/snapback]</div>

'
No problem Bendial, the dang thing can't be all things to all people. I don't think you'll loose a lot of money though, the resale on them is phenominal.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sarge @ Aug 1 2007, 12:25 PM) [snapback]488691[/snapback]</div>

The average person's reaction time is faster than the traction control?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sarge @ Aug 1 2007, 12:25 PM) [snapback]488691[/snapback]</div>

Ok, so perhaps I'm willing to concede that without traction control, VSC, and anti-lock brakes there may be some opportunity for the driver to react incorrectly. I'll have to think about that one for a bit, but they could just as easily react incorrectly if their foot was on the accelerator.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sarge @ Aug 1 2007, 12:25 PM) [snapback]488691[/snapback]</div>

I assume you are still talking about a car without traction control? Even so, why would the wheels spin faster? I thought the purpose of the CC was to maintain the speed of the wheels.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sarge @ Aug 1 2007, 12:25 PM) [snapback]488691[/snapback]</div>

If you are using CC, your foot is not on the accelerator, it is on the brake, so what you would do is cancel the CC at the steering wheel.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sarge @ Aug 1 2007, 12:25 PM) [snapback]488691[/snapback]</div>

No added step. Without CC, lift your foot towards you. With CC, lift CC stalk towards you. One step either way.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sarge @ Aug 1 2007, 12:25 PM) [snapback]488691[/snapback]</div>

Sounds like a good reason not to have CC in the first place. Why take the chance and risk your life on the technology to save you in dry conditions when you can simply not engage CC in the first place. Whether it is the switches in the floor pedal telling the computer how fast you want to go, or it is the switches in the steering wheel lever telling the computer how fast you want to go, either way every time you drive your Prius, you are trusting the technology to perform as expected, and you are risking your life on the technology.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rae Vynn @ Jul 31 2007, 01:27 PM) [snapback]488143[/snapback]</div>

Yep. Replace them with decent tires and you'll find traction improves a lot on 'iffy' spots. Granted you can still hydroplane if the water is deep enough but my TripleTreds are much better than the OEMs in a patch of sand/gravel and wet roads

 

I hope you do find solutions to your problems. There is a big difference between a commute where you have to keep your foot on the accelerator and one where you can use CC. With CC you can shift your position a lot more.

I was EXTREMELY lucky in that I was able to rent a Prius from Enterprise for a WEEK before I ordered one (July 2004). I was able to test long trips, mountain trips, city driving. I think that is almost impossible now. I loved it, still do, wouldn't trade it for anything else on the road. I am 6'2". I can't sit in the back, my head hits the roof unless I slouch. Maybe you are more leggy than I am. I wouldn't complain if I had a couple extra inches of seat travel though.

Regarding mileage, I'm not sure you said what you are getting. Where and how you drive are big factors. A lot of short trips will not get top mileage. I am not able to get long term 60 MPG in 'city' driving but I once got 99.9 MPG for 6.9 miles right after getting gas when the engine was warm and the trip had more downhill than up. It included many stops and 1.5 miles of interstate. As for interstate, I find a 10% to 15% increase in mileage slowing down 10 MPH. If you are doing 75, try 65 (that is the legal limit in most states anyway). In a test a couple of weeks ago, I got 59.2 MPG for 388 miles, 98% at 55 MPH using Cruise. I managed to hold to 58+ for the tank of over 500 miles before I needed to gas up for the same trip the next week.

If you haven't yet learned the "glide", do so. When the car is warmed up and the road doesn't have too much incline, go a couple MPH over your desired speed (< 42 MPH) then back off the accelerator. Gently push on it again until you have no arrows. Effective Neutral with respect to engine 'drag'. If you can hold that, you'll find your mileage improves a TON since you are using NO fuel of any sort. If you need power to maintain speed, push a LITTLE harder and the car will go to electric. This will also improve your mileage a lot.

With regard to EPA numbers, as noted above, the tests are really bogus. They have now added "aggressive acceleration and cold weather" tests which drop the readings. 15% - 20% lower on a car that only gets 20 MPG is not nearly the 'emotional' hit that a Prius with an old EPA rating of 55 MPG avg takes. The new number is reasonable for MY car because I have a lot of cold weather and my lifetime average is about what the new EPA numbers say. I get close to the old numbers in the summer but sub zero F really takes a toll.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bendial @ Jul 30 2007, 06:46 PM) [snapback]487684[/snapback]</div>

Funny how things work. I'm 6 1" and find I have allot more leg room then I had in my Corolla. Maybe you are legier then me. Didn't you test drive the car? The seats were terribly uncomfortable at first causing an actual backache but I found that putting the seatback down one click really helped the problem. Good luck with your next car.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SW03ES @ Jul 31 2007, 07:11 PM) [snapback]488439[/snapback]</div>

Most people don't do test drives at night.

 

Jetta TDI (Diesel) or the Yaris is close at 37mpg.

Wrong! Some play is normal but I compared a 2000 Toyota RAV4's center console to my 2007 Prius. My Prius console feels cheap compared to the RAV's. The issue is the plastics they used, it is to soft.

Are you serious? I guess if you know nothing about engines then you would say this.

Vehicles seemed to use idiot lights instead of gauges, along with a speedometer limit of 85mph.

Idiot lights do not tell you about rising temps that could leave you stranded if the engine overheats and fails. This is a reality. Even if you don't know the numbers a gauge can show the driver when the temps are approaching the "Red" area so they can shut down or think about finding a mechanic.

Tach and Coolant information is monitored and can be displayed (through the OBD2) so the engine sensors are already in place, it just bugs me that I don't have the option to view it in my MFD. If it is available why not let consumers have the option to view or not? I'm probably more into my engines than most and like to view this information. Some people like to view their radio station song information, others like to monitor mpg use. A simple software fix would have allowed the MFD to be used for engine info. Instead I get a screen to monitor my speaker volume, when I could just as easily listened for the adjustment and didn't need a display showing it to me. Some people say the NAV system is a waste as they can just as easily read a paper map. I disagree because I like technology. The Prius has a lot of potential with all this technology, I just didn't want cheap and limited technology. For the $30k I paid for this vehicle I thought it had a bit more.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rest @ Aug 1 2007, 05:13 PM) [snapback]488894[/snapback]</div>

Sorry, I've got to call B.S. on this one. Even if I give you the benefit of allowing you to use the numbers for the manual transmission Yaris, the new rating is expected to be 29 city and 36 hwy. The Prius beats the city MPG by over 65% and it beats the hwy MPG by over 27%. Skipping the fact that you originally said that "there other non-hybrid vehicles that can get the new rating", and now you are saying the Yaris is only "close", I doubt many people will agree that a difference of 19 MPG for city is "close".

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rest @ Aug 1 2007, 05:13 PM) [snapback]488894[/snapback]</div>

Nah, I like it soft. I'm not sure what cheap "feels" like, but I still say that your 200 RAV4 didn't have enough play, and the Prius is just right. Much more likely to give and move out of the way if I'm pushed into it in an accident.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rest @ Aug 1 2007, 05:13 PM) [snapback]488894[/snapback]</div>

Come on, I asked 2 questions, and rather than answer you accuse me of knowing nothing about engines? Perhaps lacking a reasonable answer, this was all you could offer?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rest @ Aug 1 2007, 05:13 PM) [snapback]488894[/snapback]</div>

I won't make the joke, I won't make the joke, I won't make the joke. Wow, it's hard to restrain myself on this one.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rest @ Aug 1 2007, 05:13 PM) [snapback]488894[/snapback]</div>

Assuming you mean indicator lights or warning lights, all of this sounds like it makes perfect sense for a car designed for the average driver. I can't think of any jurisdictions in the U.S. with a speed limit higher than 85, so what purpose is there for a higher speedometer reading? Indicator lights are a great way of alerting a driver who doesn't understand how the car works that it needs to be looked at. Those who know how to take advantage of additional information can purchase devices to give them that info.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rest @ Aug 1 2007, 05:13 PM) [snapback]488894[/snapback]</div>

Actually a properly operating indicator light does exactly that. It shows the driver when they are approaching the "Red" area so they can shut down or think about finding a mechanic. There are way too many things that could be monitored in a car like the Prius. If every possible value had a gauge, it'd end up looking like an airplane cockpit. You want a gauge for tire pressure too? How about oil pressure? Current to/from the HV battery? Current to/from the 12V battery? I suppose you want 3 tachometers right? One for each of the 3 motors in the Prius? Perhaps a gauge for the pressure in the hydraulic brake lines? And the levels for the power steering fluid? I mean come on. I'll take the warning lights.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rest @ Aug 1 2007, 05:13 PM) [snapback]488894[/snapback]</div>

Because it would add to the development cost for the MFD, and the vast majority of drivers would rather not waste the money.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rest @ Aug 1 2007, 05:13 PM) [snapback]488894[/snapback]</div>

I highly recommend a little research ahead of time into just what you are getting the next time you decide to purchase anything.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Danny Hamilton @ Aug 1 2007, 03:19 PM) [snapback]488768[/snapback]</div>

To clarify, I was referring to the reaction time of the driver, not the car.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Danny Hamilton @ Aug 1 2007, 03:19 PM) [snapback]488768[/snapback]</div>

Yes, that is the purpose. However, there is always resistance against the forward movement of the engine (Sorry, I'm no physicist...). When that resistance is removed, what happens? Just like if you are playing tug-of-war with someone and the other person lets go of the rope... what happens to you? :lol:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Danny Hamilton @ Aug 1 2007, 03:19 PM) [snapback]488768[/snapback]</div>

The 'added step' I was referring to is the action of canceling the cruise, which is either pulling on the stalk or tapping the brake. And you probably don't want to be pressing the brakes if the car is starting to fishtail, that will only make it worse.

And my point about reaction time is that if you are driving normally, your foot is on the accelerator, always at the ready. When you are using CC, most people generally would not have your foot hovering just above the pedals and/or their hand on the CC stalk to cancel it at moment's notice. Therefore, increased foot travel distance = slower reaction time, as slight difference as that may be.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Danny Hamilton @ Aug 1 2007, 03:19 PM) [snapback]488768[/snapback]</div>

I am not saying "Cruise Control is bad", just that there is a time and place for it, and inclement weather or moderate to heavy traffic is not the place!

 

I'm 6'5" and about 220. I've drove a BMW 740iL (That's big, and the L is 4 inches longer) for the past 5 years or so. I still have the BMW, but I have no problem being comfortable in this new Prius of mine.

You are crazy.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NicksBlackBrid @ Aug 1 2007, 08:52 PM) [snapback]489054[/snapback]</div>

he MIGHT be crazy (you have an opinion and it is valued as well) but you are most definitely presumptious in thinking you know what is best for anyone besides yourself.

 

Hi Bendial,

My guess is you like to follow closely to other cars. And, so there is no time to see and steer away from man-hole covers.

But this is a not good idea in any car My brother was ziping around in his 1970's Scirocco, and hit a damp manhole cover he did not see, as it was after midnight. This upset the loads on the tires, that he slid right into a curb at 40 + mph. No traction control or anything on that car. If he would have had tracion control, he would have lost brakes, momentarily, but would have been able to steer around the corner. As the tire would have reganed traction when it came off the man-hole cover.

On the seat issue, yea, everybody is different, sometimes even different between the start and end of the day and season of the year (day of the month for females). The adjustability of the seat was probably the biggest mistake Toyota made with the Prius.

I read an article that Toyota is one of the best at using parts between many car lines, and thus gaining economies of scale. One of the examples they gave was the seat rails. An American company had 4 or 5 times the seat rail part numbers than Toyota.

As I understand from reading this thread, even if it takes 3 or 4 thosand dollars to fix the Prius seat for you, you will be ahead economically, as compared to trading in the Prius and buying a new car. Down the road with the new car, you will be even more in the hole.

So, my advice is to see if you can find an auto interior expert that might help you out. They may be able to fit a Corolla seat, an extend the steering wheel for you.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bendial @ Jul 30 2007, 04:46 PM) [snapback]487684[/snapback]</div>

Welcome to PC and no you are not going to get roasted (much ).

There is definitely a "learning" and "adapting" cycle in driving the Prius, what with regen braking, traction control and all the other advanced features.

Not much anybody can do about your 6'2" except yourself; had you rented a Prius for a week or so you would have had a first hand experience whether there is a "fit" or not before your $$$ changed hands.

Try to see the positive aspects of driving the Prius and the negatives will slowly become insignificant.

cheers

Edit:
P.S Tnx for the message

 

The GEO Metro used to actually get 50mpg. I know several people that have or had one and did the math to prove it.

That is what we called them back in the day, because even an idiot know something was wrong when they went on. But rarely did they work correctly and when lit up damage was already done to the engine.

The engine already has the sensors in place! All that would have to be done is upgrade the software so the MFD could display the information. Many vehicles display tire pressures and oil pressure.

The MFD uses and entire screen for a compass display, which I find to be a waste since my NAV screen shows this information already. I would gladly exchange the compass screen for engine information. Now granted the ScanGauge2 gives me the info I want, it still would have been nice to see Toyota incorporate it in their program.

 

I never thought about that, so I'll give you that one. Still a center console should not move so much when pushed with a light touch. Just like the steering wheel shouldn't wobble when tapped. I think you know what I mean. Sturdy can still be designed safe.

Thanks for all but calling me an idiot. If you didn't mean it that way then forgive me. Maybe I was just spoiled by the Honda CVT Insight I used to have. Especially the mileage, since I routinely got more than the rated mpg. My problem is I believed the Toyota hype. Toyota is supposed to mean quality. I trusted their advertised numbers and even though the EPA did the ratings Toyota knew the truth. Heck I even believed Toyota when they said I would get a $3100 tax credit.

I will say this, I think the Prius is a safer vehicle than the Insight and has more room inside. And yes it does have some cool gagdets but I will be excited about the Prius when the Plug In redesign happens. The Tesla all electric sport's car is advertised as a 200 mile range so the technology is here and Toyota needs to get going on the electric portion of the Prius.