Bad decision.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rae Vynn @ Jul 31 2007, 12:27 PM) [snapback]488143[/snapback]</div>

Sorry Rae, I don't mean to pick on you, but I suspect that your problem had more to do with this than with CC or the tires.

Of course I wasn't in the car and didn't experience what you experienced, so my opinion in that matter is nearly worthless.

If traction control, works while CC is engaged, then that should take care of the "brain/foot connection will automatically ease up" situation. The traction control should be able to "automatically ease up" faster than the brain/foot connection.

If the anti-lock brakes work while the CC is engaged, then that should prevent the tires from sliding and prevent the driver from losing control of the car when braking.

If VSC works while CC is engaged, then that should help the driver get the car back under control quickly if a situation arises where the car begins to spin in slick conditions.

The point I'm trying to make here is that CC doesn't seem to make driving in wet conditions any less safe. Distracted driving, or assuming that CC means you don't have to pay attention to the road ahead on the other hand is very likely to make driving in wet conditions less safe. As a matter of fact, distracted driving, or assuming that CC means you don't have to pay attention to the road ahead is very likely to make driving in dry, perfect conditions less safe.

 

Okay, from Edmunds:
http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/safety/ar...01/article.html
Quote:
Don't use cruise control. If you hydroplane, there's the chance your car could actually accelerate. Cruise control also allows drivers to be less vigilant and to take their foot away from the pedals — not a great idea when reaction time is so important.
***
I've been driving for 30+ years. 25 of those were in Minnesota, and I've driven through some very, very, very bad weather. I've driven a myriad of vehicles, too.
I have used CC in rain, and in snow, but generally I don't.
I've had anti-lock brakes on vehicles before.
I have not had traction control before, and I've not willingly had such poor tires as these OEMs.
I've had moments of not paying attention before. I've not had any car before the Prius give me the scare that I had in this situation.
I'm not blaming the Prius, but I am saying that it needs better tires, and I need to pay closer attention to turning off the CC well before stops (which I am now doing more diligently).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rae Vynn @ Jul 31 2007, 03:22 PM) [snapback]488261[/snapback]</div>

As for CC causing a hydroplaning car to accelerate, I don't buy it. Sounds like a mistake on the part of whoever wrote the article for Edmunds. First of all, by definition, when hydroplaning the wheels no lnoger have traction, so they have nothing to push against to create an accelerating force. But dismissing that for a moment, I just can't think of any reason that CC would cause a hydroplaning car to accelerate. That sounds like the exact opposite of how CC works. Wheels lose traction and begin to spin, CC senses that the wheels are spinning faster and thinks the speed has increased, so it reduces engine power to slow the car (exactly like you would if you had your foot on the accelerator).

Now I certainly agree that being less vigilant is a bad idea in any conditions, dry, wet, snowy, icy, or otherwise. Using CC doesn't require the driver to be less vigilant, but it does make it easier to be less vigilant. How about we agree that some people are less vigilant when they use CC, and those people should never use CC no matter what the conditions, and then we can agree that assuming you are not less vigilant, there is nothing wrong with using CC in wet, or slick conditions in a car with traction control and anti-lock brakes.

I'm still not sure why it would be necessary to turn CC off before stops.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Danny Hamilton @ Jul 31 2007, 04:47 PM) [snapback]488276[/snapback]</div>

I think he meant inactivating or canceling it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jamarimutt @ Jul 31 2007, 05:11 PM) [snapback]488332[/snapback]</div>

And still my question stands.

I understand that canceling CC as soon as possible before a stop will likely improve MPG (assuming you coast to the stop and don't use the accelerator in place of the CC. But I don't understand why canceling CC before a stop would make stopping any safer.

 

I just read this today:

Tom & Ray "Cruise Control"

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(oly_57mpg @ Jul 30 2007, 11:27 PM) [snapback]487806[/snapback]</div>

Thanks greatly. Obviously pretty involved but shows that something can be done. What is now apparent is that the rivets on the rails can be removed and one extender piece used four times may be much more realistic. That problem is real for those with unusually long legs. (I'm 6 ft., he is 6'2" and yet we see eye to eye when in the seats.) The seat is railed back and steering wheel is fully raised on both Pri'i. On the 2001 Prius the steering wheel clears the knees just by one inch. The 2007 has the same clearance, it's just the cruise control stalk keeps hitting the knees in a turn since it is mounted on the steering wheel.

Found out that the Prius was designed to seat between the 5th percentile Japanese female (4 feet 11 inches) and the 90th percentile American male (6 feet 3 inches). That leaves a some number of males outside the designed Prius envelope.....but I think this can be solved.

 

Yes but there other non-hybrid vehicles that can get the new rating without the added cost.

True but with other cars I have owned their center consoles didn't wiggle even when pushed.

I totally disagree with you on this one. Tachs are very useful in monitoring the engine. As far as warning lights instead of gauges...do we need to go back to the late 70's, early 80's? Monitoring actual coolant temps allows you the option of shutting down before getting damage to the engine. With a warning light, when it comes on the damage is already done.

They should be adjustable with the dash lights. As they are right now they are to dim.

Not sure where you got $160 for the 12volt battery, but it sounds like a dealership price. You don't have to purchase an OEM battery.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sarge @ Jul 31 2007, 01:50 PM) [snapback]488167[/snapback]</div>

I've never felt the steering wheel control lighting was too dim...

Anyways, doesn't anybody thoroughly test drive cars before buying them anymore?!? Seriously, you should have had ample time to discover these characteristics before you bought it. Of course the dealer isn't going to take a loss on the car because you decided you didn't like it, nor should they.

Lesson learned, drive the car many times before buying.

 

It's really odd that you would fit better in a Corolla than a Prius. I rented one (Corolla) last year and my legs were cramped up after 40min on the road. I had some initial complaints about the Prius but it is nowhere as bad as the rental Corolla. Maybe seat travel is shorter now than it was when you bought yours.

As for a solution, it's probably been suggested that you can have the seat rails lengthened to get you another few inches. (Probably your best option IMO.) I didn't have to go to that extreme (almost 6'2" but evenly proportioned) but made it "good enough" by reclining the seat back one click farther than I'm used to, which put me about a half inch farther back on the seat cushion than before. Maybe worth a shot, maybe you've already tried it.

On the topic of brakes, this might be related to your comfort issues. A compromised seating position does horrible things to your use of the controls. Having your knee bent significantly makes it very difficult to keep fine control over the pedal's position. That said, the brakes are quite a bit more responsive than your average hydraulic brakes. I've come to like it because I absolutely hate mushy brakes, but that's just my preference.

All I have to add is that you must have bought the car for a reason. Was it a strong enough reason that you are willing to put some effort into rectifying your problems with the car? If so, I strongly encourage you to do so. A couple hundred dollars spent to have a professional move the seat back for you would be a whole lot cheaper than eating the instant depreciation hit of selling a three month old car. I imagine the car's little quirks are three times as irritating when you aren't comfortable to begin with.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bendial @ Jul 31 2007, 03:58 PM) [snapback]488254[/snapback]</div>

So turn your lemon into lemonade! Do the seat mod thingie mentioned above. I did my own version, by fabricating brackets that let me move back another couple inches ... not that it was a make or break kind of thing.
At 6'-5" ... 36" inseam & waist, I'm not the tallest P.C'er but the seat thing was only a little inconvenient. I just don't get it as being a deal breaker. I acknowledge the complaints, but I'm ok with them, personally. Do the mod!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rest @ Jul 31 2007, 08:34 PM) [snapback]488424[/snapback]</div>

Just curious, but would you mind giving an example of a gasoline powered non-hybrid vehicle that "can get the new rating"?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rest @ Jul 31 2007, 08:34 PM) [snapback]488424[/snapback]</div>

Maybe you just never pushed hard enough? Perhaps the Prius center console is designed to move? Why shouldn't it. Perhaps those other cars you've owned were all faulty. Maybe their center consoles should have moved? Seriously though, you aren't claiming that it fell apart or that it fails to remain in place, just that if you push on it it moves a bit, right?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rest @ Jul 31 2007, 08:34 PM) [snapback]488424[/snapback]</div>

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. What do you hope to accomplish through the monitoring of the engine? Do we really need to go back to such outdated technoilogy?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rest @ Jul 31 2007, 08:34 PM) [snapback]488424[/snapback]</div>

Hey, I liked the 70's and 80's, they were a very good time in my life. I'm not sure what the 70's and 80's have to do with the need for warning lights ( I wasn't driving yet then), perhaps you'd be willing to explain?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rest @ Jul 31 2007, 08:34 PM) [snapback]488424[/snapback]</div>

I hadn't heard about this TSB yet. So the Prius is desigend to damage the ICE with excess heat before indicating a problem with coolant temperature? I'll get mine in to the dealer for the warrantee service to fix this right away. Thanks for the heads up.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rest @ Jul 31 2007, 08:34 PM) [snapback]488424[/snapback]</div>

I've often wondered if Toyota didn't illuminate the steering wheel controls at all, would there be so many people that would be unhappy with them adding non-adjustable lighting? Besides the wonderful fact that they actually are lighted, they various buttons intentionally have unique shapes, locations, and raised/depressed tactile indicators so that you can find/identify them without ever having to take your eyes off the road (which is where you should be looking while the car is moving)

 

I often get the "I'm tall, could I possibly fit into this car?"
question at shows. I simply open the door and have them sit in it
and play with the seat, pointing out how the taller a driver is, the
more likely their head lands under the tallest point in the curve
of the roofline. But if their legs or torso are unexpectedly long
or short in proportion, it may not work for them, and they at least
got a free chance to test that along with all the other info they'll
walk away with.
.
I really like the ergos, but it did take a little getting used to.
Especially that left A-pillar, that pedestrians can hide behind
no matter how large or small the driver is.
.
_H*

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Danny Hamilton @ Jul 31 2007, 12:01 PM) [snapback]488079[/snapback]</div>

Just to be clear, this is a rule in ALL CARS, not just the Prius.

I had an accident years ago in a GMC Sonoma for using CC in nasty weather. Set myself into a spin -- round and round she went...

I don't use it anymore in bad weather in ANY of my vehicles!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Danny Hamilton @ Jul 31 2007, 10:01 AM) [snapback]488079[/snapback]</div>

Any cop, or professional driver, will tell you that a cruise control should be OFF when conditions can be slippery. There are a lot of accidents caused by loss of vehicle control when traction is less than optimal.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Miss_Taz @ Aug 1 2007, 09:19 AM) [snapback]488593[/snapback]</div>

Just trying to understand.

If everything about that drive was exactly the same except you had your foot on the accelerator instead of using CC, you are certain that you wouldn't have set yourself into a spin?

Also curious if the GMC Sonoma had traction control, VSC, and anti-lock brakes.

It's just my opinion, and I'm more than willing to change it if someone can explain why it's wrong, but when people say, "Because I used CC in bad weather, I lost control of the car", what I hear is, "Because I was going too fast for the conditions and wasn't paying close enough attention to the road ahead of me, I lost control of the car."

I still don't understand why CC itself in a car with traction control, VSC, and anti-lock brakes is any less safe than using the pedal on the floor. They both tell the car's computer how fast you want to go, and the car's computer decides how to best use the engine and electric motors to attain that speed.

Is there really any functional difference between canceling CC and lifting your foot off the accelerator? Is there any functional difference between keeping your foot on the accelerator and keeping CC on?

The few links people posted here seem to misunderstand how CC works saying that more power is sent to the wheels when they lose traction, or seem to say it's bad without explaining why.

The fact that some people think it's a bad thing to do doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad thing to do. I'll be convinced when someone can explain why.

If traction control or VSC are deactivated when CC is on I'll accept that it's a bad idea. If CC caused the power output to the wheels to remain constant (like a throttle lock no a non-hybrid), I'd accept that it's a bad idea. Just give me something to work with here so I can change my opinion.



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kd7uch @ Aug 1 2007, 09:46 AM) [snapback]488611[/snapback]</div>

This I agree with. But it is true with or without CC. It isn't because of CC, it is because of driving too fast, and not paying attention to the road and your surroundings.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rest @ Jul 31 2007, 09:34 PM) [snapback]488424[/snapback]</div>

Really? EPA has changed the way it estimates fuel consumption and this results in lower numbers for ALL vehicles, not just the Prius. It's only because the Prius gets significantly higher mileage in the first place that it's numbers have come down in the revised estimates by a larger actually mpg, though typically around the same %.

It's also the case that since many Prius owners get close to, or above, the present EPA estimates, almost every Prius will get above the new ones - some a long way above. The same isn't going to be true of other vehicles.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rest @ Jul 31 2007, 09:34 PM) [snapback]488424[/snapback]</div>

Since pretty much all interior components of any car comprise mostly soft and pliable materials, a certain amount of flexing or movement is to be expected, is normal and is inevitable. Aside from the fact you want these things to have some give so they can absorb rather than transmit energy in an impact, it's hard to see how a small amount of flexure in the mounting could be considered a problem.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rest @ Jul 31 2007, 09:34 PM) [snapback]488424[/snapback]</div>

Nonsense. Adding more and more instruments is the boy-racer approach to motoring. It has nothing to do with what is or isn't needed or valuable, it's a marketing tool to make gullible buyers think they're getting something worth having. In the Prius, a tachometer is helpful for monitoring the engine for most efficient powerband utilization, but since the vast majority of owners would have no idea what they were seeing on it and how to use that information to positive effect, it makes no sense to provide it - particularly since it would add to the cost of the car for all those people who have no wish for it. Since it can be added later by those who DO want it and know how to use the data, that seems a great compromise all round.

As to water temperature - all a gauge does it tell you nothing is wrong when it gives you the always-expected readout. What you need is a way to be informed when something IS wrong, and a light actually does that far better, since it ADDS an indicator that was not there previously, rather than a gauge that is almost universally ignored because it's always present. To suggest the light doesn't come on early enough to signal a problem before damage occurs is a foolish attempt to discredit something you don't understand, and you do it because you don't like it. That's not reasoned, it's disingenuous.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rest @ Jul 31 2007, 09:34 PM) [snapback]488424[/snapback]</div>

Too dim for what exactly? I don't have any problem operating the steering wheel controls on my car, despite the fact they are lit below the threshold of distraction at night. The buttons are well laid out and very easy to get used to. Within a few days of ownership, there's no need to even look at them to know where each of them are.

The original poster in this thread raised a series of considered and perfectly reasoned concerns over the suitability of the Prius to his circumstance, and as such deserves to be heard with respect. You, would do well to take a lesson from that.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bendial @ Jul 30 2007, 08:01 PM) [snapback]487693[/snapback]</div>

Ahhh, the Corolla. I miss my Corolla at times. 36 MPG this time of year, drives and steers like a race car. The Prius acts more like a Camry than a Corolla and handles like a bigger car. I wouldn't trade my Prius in for anything unless it was a significant improvement. That's unlikely to happen any time soon although I hear that Toyota will be making the next major improvement to the Prius in 2009.