Attention KANSANS! Tax Warning...

Yes, maggieddd hit where I was going. The way I read this (I'm not a laywer, but I read a lot of contracts the "intent" of this credit is to encourage the use of vehicles that do not use gasoline.

Convert your Prius to run on Propane instead of Gas, then you have something!

Seriously though, they probably should have explicitly excluded Hybrid vehicles in their wording to be safe, but I really believe their intent was just that. If this truly was their intent, then they should treat everyone fairly and revoke the credits that were already given. If they intended to include Hybrids, then there should be a credit coming your way. I don't see anything about limiting the number of credits that are handed out (like they are limiting the carpool stickers in California).

I guess we'll eventually find out if you end up taking it further though!

 

As I read it the Prius wouldn't qualify. It's to bad it doesn't take into consideration the regenerative electric side of Hybrid technology.

I see my engine recharging my batteries almost as often as the regeneration takes place so it would be a hard call.

Then again, in Arizona they tried to give a credit to modified vehicles that could use natural gas so the dealers would plugged a 2 gallon tank on and made it so you could run both. So, they never filled the tanks...after all, how far you going to go on 2 gallons? Some bought vehicles as large as motor homes before the state paniced and shut down the offer. Arizona didn't even consider a cap on the offer - almost put the state out of business. Those folks are still driving around with alt fuel plates but never use anything but gas. And, they get to drive in the HOV lanes here. Some of them complain that they don't want to be forced to have the alt fuel plates because people are flipping them off all the time. Wonder why?

I'd love to see tax credits based on how clean a vehicle is and not what powers it.

But, as long as we have an oil man running the country....nope, not going there.

 

What gets me is they are giving the credit for using other fuels that still put out twice as much pollution than the Prius does. If the idea is to provide an incentive for people to use cleaner burning vehicles then they are failing.

 

Off topic

Haven't thought of Salina, KS in decades. My father was stationed at Schilling AFB and we were there from 59-65. I imagine Salina has changed a wee bit in forty years. Great photo gallery BTW.

Dan

 

Brandon,
I didn't read that part. If that's what they say than you should fight for your credit.

 

The Prius is an Electrically (partially) PROPELLED car that is entirely gasoline powered. If you plugged it in, it would be an electrically POWERED car. The Prius gets ALL of its energy from gasoline. Period. It's not an alternative fuel vehicle. You can't ignore the fact that the electricity comes from gasoline, and regen braking doesn't count, because you got the car moving using gasoline, or using electricity generated by the engine. Nothing is free.

Nate

 

What matters is how you put energy into the car. In the Prius' case, it is only liquid chemical stored energy in the form of gasoline. When there is a charging cord to plug your Prius into an outlet, then it becomes an electrically powered car. Until that day, it is gasoline powered. You should come to terms with this; it will help you understand why we need the plug in hybrid so badly.

Gasoline cannot be made from hydrogen. It can't be done.

Also, most of the energy in the Prius battery comes directly from power generated from the engine, very little comes from the regen.

You can talk about how the car is powered by electricity, but it is not. You can't draw a line of demarcation around the car for one conversation about energy source and then draw it around another point (the internal battery or the refinery) for another conversation. If the line of demarcation surrounds the Prius, and the question is, how do you fuel this thing, the answer is gasoline, and only gasoline. Gasoline is not an alternative fuel. When the state of Kansas talks about alternative fueled vehicles, the line surrounds the vehicle, and there you are, with a gasoline pump in your hand, it's the only energy crossing that line into the system. The state is right on this one.

Nate

 

Brandon, you had a quote of:
"A qualified alternative-fueled motor vehicle is one that operates on an alternative fuel, meets or exceeds the clean fuel vehicle standards in the federal clean air act amendments of 1990, Title II, and is one of the following:

Bi-fuel motor vehicle - A motor vehicle with two separate fuel systems designed to run on either an alternative fuel or conventional fuel..."

Which document did that come from? I had previously posted a link to the Kansas Tax Credit document (http://www.ksrevenue.org/taxcredits-altfuel.htm) and you had posted the form as well. I don't see the term "bi-fuel" in either of those forms. Did I miss one?

Interesting note is that the form is dated 6/2004. But if you look at the posted tax credit description, it went in effect for all tax years after 12/1995. This is before the Prius, so it may explain why it was not in the document as being excluded and further enforces the intent I think.

Ken

 

The Federal Government says the Prius is NOT an "Alternative Fuel" Vehicle for tax purposes.

It is an "Advanced Technology" vehicle and a "HEV"

http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/afv/models.html

http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/pdfs/my2005afv_atv.pdf

 

Sorry, must have missed the bi-fuel piece on the form. If it's on the form, but not on the original credit wording, then maybe they did update parts of it to cover, seems like a mess.

Maybe one person is looking at the form and approving things, another is looking at the credit wording and denying!

In any case, if it is a struggle for you to convince a lot of people on this Pro-Prius forum that it should get the credit, I'm thinking convincing the local goverment will be more difficult!

Best of luck, let us know how it all works out...

Ken

 

The Prius is fueled by gasoline only. When you go fuel your Prius, what do you do? You pump gasoline. You should consider the thermodynamics of a system. Ask any high school chemistry teacher and they'll explain to you that the only way to add energy to the system (in this case, the system is a Prius) is via gasoline or towing it up a hill. This is very, very important to understand. If you plug it into a wall, that is a seperate fuel source, in your example, electricity via coal.

I am not arguing that I think coal from electricity is better, only it represents an alternative fuel. Even ethanol in the tank would be alternative fuel, something other than gasoline adding energy to the system.

It is not a question of philosophy, it is a question of science, in particular, thermodynamics.

The Prius is nothing more than a very efficient gasoline powered car. In fact, the less regening you do, and the more you cruise (at a constant load) with the gasoline engine ON, the HIGHER your MPG! Why? Energy is wasted going into the battery. That's right, the energy that goes into the battery is more wasteful than if that energy goes out to the wheels.

The day you plug in your Prius is the day it becomes an alternative fuel vehicle. Until then, I predict you will be buying gasoline.

Nate