Arguments for superiority of hybrids

That's like saying all Prius owners are Gay, Green Peace Democrats...really people.

 

The question of "superiority" is a contextual one. It depends totally on the expectations of the one who is going to own the car. Most car magazines give terrible review of the prius. The writers in these magazines are car aficionados of the type who like cars that are "fun" and "interesting", which to them means fast, g-suit-acceleration, and corner had enough to break blood vessels in your eyes. So, to them, the Prius really is a piece of garbage. If, like me, you like elegant technology, high efficiency, in an excellent practical package, the the Prius is a fantastic car. For me, it is, by far, the best car I have ever owned. This is not necessarily the case for other people. For them, it can be lousy car, depending on their needs.

 

I moved from Prius ownership to Avalon Hybrid ownership, I wanted more comfort, more quiet and more toys, but I did not want to give up hybrid ownership. Switching brands to a new unproven hybrid system was not for me (can anyone say Ford).

 

You need another shovel down there. The problem here is communicating you are superior, not the car. Your soap box is no different than...

 

• Price gouging at the pump? First of all, you are paying 72 cents/gal tax in CA. Are you thinking energy is supposed to be cheap? If gasoline was as cheap as you seem to feel it should be, we'd really have trouble arguing for Superiority of Hybrids.

 

I think our gas is way too cheap. I know, typical liberal attitude, but also one grounded in years in the petroleum industry. I think our gas prices should reflect more costs of said gas, including air pollution, human health effects, groundwater pollution, and spills. The petroleum industry is a huge lobby in Washington, and they are quite successful in keeping fuel prices low and deflecting the true costs of their industry.

 

If someone doesn't value the environment, or using less gas, you are simply spinning your wheels trying to convince them to buy a hybrid.
You would be better served trying to persuade them about the environmental, national fiscal health, national security aspects than their choice of car.
BTW, if you were truly "enlightened", by your apparent definition, you wouldn't own a car.

 

There is no counter argument.
Let's say someone is looking at a Ford Fiesta or Focus costing 14,000 and 16,000 respectively and only costs $1600 more in gasoline usage (versus hybrid), then there's no logical reason to choose the $25,000 hybrid (except possibly looks).
Also:
Many many standard cars are rated SULEV or PZEV so they are just as clean as the hybrid.

 

Average new car sold in USA costs $30,000. What is the logical reason to spend that money when one can buy a spanking new 11,000 Kia?

 

Gasoline is the U.S. is no cheaper than gasoline in the UK after you subtract the sales/excise taxes.

As for the $30,000..... just because people waste money doesn't mean I have to do the same. I'd choose the three-cylinder Fiesta or Focus which is only 3 highway mpg lower than a Prius, but also ~9000 dollars cheaper (no expensive battery or e-motor).

 

I have seen 29,000 Focus and Fiestas in my local ford dealer. They lowest priced one they had on the lot was 25k.
You say a 3banger focus or Feista is less than 15k?

 

The 3 banger Fiesta is 16,400 and the 4 banger is 14,000. You would have to drive your $25,000 Prius over 500,000 miles for the gasoline savings to make-up that difference.

 

3 highway mpg lower than the Prius? Ha. That is flat out FALSE data.

2013 Ford Fiesta MPG Reports | Fuelly

35.2 is average for all the 2013's on Fuelly.

That is TEN MILES PER GALLON worse than my wife's 08 Prius and 20 MILES PER GALLON worse than my 2012.

Focus is even worse.

 

I prefer to use *official* government numbers that are scientifically controlled & repeatable:
EPA highway rating == 45 MPG (Fiesta 1.0)
EPA highway rating == 48 MPG (Prius)

Other low-cost cars have the following highway ratings: Mitsubishi Mirage at 44mpg, Chevy CruzeEco at 43pg, Honda Civic HF at 42 mpg, and so on. Oh and let's not forget the Prius C or Honda Insight which are both $5000 cheaper than a standard prius.....

 

...time will tell if the Fiesta provides as much value and reliability as Prius, but it certainly makes the point that the word "hybrid" per se does not make a car superior. In Virginia, even a 22-mpg hybrid owes an extra $64/yr tax for the crime of using less gasoline than an non-hybrid car would have used...whereas the FORD 3-banger is free and clear of extra taxes. Hope we kill that law soon... but if not I should suggest cars under 4-cylinders be taxed extra too.

EDIT: VA hybrid fee pretty much dead as of 20-Jan-2014...it is being repealed with tremendous bi-partisan support

 

I notice that you also prefer to:
* Ignore the government numbers for City and Combined;
* Compare the Fiesta against the much larger standard Prius, rather than the more equivalent and cheaper Prius 'c';
* Mix and match features into non-existent combinations, such as the Fiesta SFE MPG at the non-SFE-package price, or the utility of the Focus Hatchback and the MPG of the AT with the price of the much cheaper Sedan MT;
* Tell me what I have to do to save money, while repeatedly ignoring the reality of my vehicle use.

 

And on top of all this, he makes outrageous claims about lifetime mpg in his signature. 89mpg for a 1st gen Insight "come on man". 70 mpg for a Civic Hybrid "come on man" These are not trip or one time occurrences, these are "LIFETIME" mpg claims. I'm sorry, I just don't buy it.

Be all ye' forwarned, this guy (Troy Heagy) appears to be one of those guys that likes to say things to stir the pot and then sit back and watch. He seems to revel in this. I highly advise anyone to not even respond to him and act like he doesn't exist then maybe, he will find another forum to wreak havoc in.

 

Wayne's Gerdes had a lifetime average over 100 mpg for his insight G1 and on a recent economy challenge scored 180 mpg. That's what happens when you have a teeny 1.0 L engine with lean burn (downto 1:25 fuel:air mix) (normal mix is 1:15).

BTW when I rented a Prius V I got 65 mpg. It isn't hard to get high fuel ratings if you just put in the effort. In fact just obeying the speed limit (65 or slower) will return greater than 50 MPG in your Prius G3.