Are we Undermining the Safety of American GI's

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Sep 20 2006, 07:00 AM) [snapback]322193[/snapback]</div>

First of all you asked two questions. The first can be a YES / NO question but what standard are you referring to, a lower one or a higher one? The second one is an essay question and assumes a yes to the first question. So I'll say YES to the first question and here's my essay.

Can we possibly put our men and women more in harms way than they are now? When will they get a plan other than "Go on patrols, stop the bombings, stop the insurgency, stop the sectarian violence and try not to get killed." Sounds a lot like Vietnam.

From an intelligence gathering perspective, what we have been watching is America sinking to the level of it's opponents. With Bush's reasoning on what constitutes fair interrogation techniques, there could be some threat down the road that might just require let's say hmmmm..... dismemberment? Gouging eyes out? Mutilation? After, all I'm doing it to protect the American people. It's only one more step until we say "We have no evidence to show you're guilty but we think you're guilty, we KNOW you're guilty. Therefore we'll just execute you now to speed up the process."

George already has everyone wetting in their pants every time he says BOO! or OSAMA! or TERRORIST! These bad paople are out there and they are a threat to us. But...if we have to sink to their level of behavior and use the excuse "Well, they did it to me first, Mom!" then they've already won. I'm not referring to individual acts by soldiers in difficult situations. I'm referring to the systematic destruction of American principles and extending from that the loss of rights guarenteed by the Constitution.

George loves to use the image of Hitler when trying to illustrate who our enemies are and who they resemble. Hitler used fear tactics to whittle away at the German Parliment until they just signed everything over to him and his gang of thugs and murderers. If I'm not mistaken, our Congress is bending over backwards to do the same for George ... right now!. What ever happened to the separation of powers, checks and balances? The Constitution? :blink:

To my mind some of the tactics Hitler used can be found a lot closer to home than Iran or Iraq. Darn! I promised myself I'd stay out of these political discussions ... oh well. Just call me a non-treehuggin', soldier lovin', non-neocon.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Sep 21 2006, 12:44 PM) [snapback]322874[/snapback]</div>

then don't respond.
and if you really have to then only intelligent responses please.

 

I have 26+ years and counting in the Military. It's my chosen career. I feel the fact that being Americans, we will always be in harms way. Being in the middle of a combat zone, no matter where, puts our Military men and women as well as civilians at much greater risk. Our Countries standards will never be one that any enemy of the U.S. will be willing to meet, so why should we try to change them.

It is up to the powers that be, the ones that we as a people voted in, to help protect those in the combat zone to the best of their ability. At times those in power have hindered this ability, whether it be for political or personal reasons. This makes it hard for the average citizen to be able to do anything to help those in combat. Using your right to vote is the first step.

I don't claim to be an intelligent person, but these are some of my thoughts. It may or may not have answered you questions, but in truth, only you can say what "your correct" response would be to these questions.

One thing, those are very thought provoking questions.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Sep 21 2006, 12:44 PM) [snapback]322874[/snapback]</div>

Dude, have you read the Constitution? I have and I saw no reference in there to the President having ultimate wartime powers. In fact, it's written very carefully to make sure no one branch has "ultimate power" at any given time. If, on the other hand, there's a court case that makes your claim true, feel free to point me to it. If you can.

And speaking of court cases ...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Sep 21 2006, 12:44 PM) [snapback]322874[/snapback]</div>

I refer you to the Supreme Court case of Hamdi v Rumsfeld. To sum it up (thanks to LandmarkCases.org)

Effectively, the government was trying to deny an American citizen his 5th Amenendment rights. Good enough for you?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Sep 21 2006, 01:52 PM) [snapback]322919[/snapback]</div>

Actually, the government did deny this American his rights for 3 years until the Supreme Court ruled in 2004. If they're willing to deny one citizen his rights, then we need to be on our guard that it doesn't happen to others. I've never been robbed, either. Should I stop locking my door at night?

And, as for the powers granted the Executive during wartime ... no mention. Just that "Commander in Chief" thing. Now, for what it says about habeas corpus (which everyone is so fond of bringing up), according to Article I, section 9 (that's the Legislative Branch, by the way):

Yes, Lincoln suspended it. And it was challenged in court & overturned in 1861(Ex parte Merryman). Lincoln ignored the order until Congress passed the Habeus Corpus Act of 1863.

By the way, the Constitution also says that only Congress can declare war.

You continue to claim that the President has "ultimate wartime power". I say prove it. Show me a court case. Show me the Constitutional passage. Don't come at me with cases where other Presidents have done it and say, "they did it, so it's true". You ask us to prove what rights we've lost, I ask you to prove the President has "ultimate power". Fair enough?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Sep 21 2006, 09:25 AM) [snapback]322797[/snapback]</div>

Oh NOW you want an explanation of the answer? When you get one, you say, only answer the question. When you get an answer to the question, then you want an explanation. First remove the colonoscope out of your rear, then take a deep breath and calm down.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Sep 21 2006, 10:35 AM) [snapback]322826[/snapback]</div>

Your son would be better off serving in Iraq to protect the americans from Iraqis who are trying to nuke america.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Sep 21 2006, 03:23 PM) [snapback]322990[/snapback]</div>

I see we're back to the old playbook. You can't answer my question about "ultimate power", so you ask me to disprove your point. How unoriginal.

By the way, I've answered your question. His name is Yaser Esam Hamdi. His 5th Amendment rights were denied for 3 years. He was subsequently released to Saudi Arabia and asked to revoke his citizenship.

Not bad for a software engineer with a simple Bachelors degree and access to Google, huh?

Now, how about filling me in on that "ultimate power" thing. C'mon. You can do it. Then again, maybe you can't.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Proco @ Sep 21 2006, 03:36 PM) [snapback]323001[/snapback]</div>

Still waiting ....

(but not holding my breath, either)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Sep 21 2006, 12:23 PM) [snapback]322990[/snapback]</div>

I love those folks that call anyone who disagrees with them anti-american. I disagree with your myopic view of what the executive branch has perpetrated on citizens concerning illegal phone taps (the Supreme Courts desision). I disagree that we should do to the enemy what they do to us. ie beheadings. I disagree with with your calling folks posting here 5th columnists. I can call you a dupe of the Bush administration but I won't call you anti-american. Why??? Because my dad and a lot of other brave men and women turned back that guy you don't want me to mention but George does anyway ... HITLER! So you still have the right to express your opinion. Calling people that disagree with you, anti-american, is well ... anti-american.

Your reference to Vietnam may be the fact (an educated guess here) returning soldiers were treated like lepers or worse when they came home. You're right, they were and it was wrong to treat them that way because the fact was they were being sent by their governmant to a shredding machine called Vietnam where the last thing our government did was jump into a helicopter from the top of the embassy and left people they had called friends and allies to stand there waving goodbye. But I digress ... <_<

I live in Arizona, home to Senator McCaine. I'm not a fan of his but it was good to see a few senators stand up to Bush, Cheney and Rummy and made them blink .. well sort of. I guess you think they're anti-american, 5th columnists too. And it's just dumb (not anti-american) to take the position that folks protesting the US involvement in Iraq want to see higher casualty counts and love the bad news. I say involvement because WAR has not been declared by Congress.

Why do we (well I anyway) protest? So there are no more higher casualty reports, no more bad news. Because our soldiers are in the new shredding machines called Iraq and Afghanistan and now it has to be finished somehow. Unfortunately, high casualies counts and bad news illustrate the continuing lack of understanding this administration had and still has of the countries, peoples and tribal dynamics in the middle east. Our soldiers are paying the price for that continued lack of understanding.

George says, "Stay the course". Well to do that, you need a rudder a plan, an idea. I don't think the entire administration has even one paddle, one rudder let alone one real idea between them. I just hope we don't see this administration jump on the last helicopter out waving goodbye to the people we called friends and allies.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Sep 22 2006, 01:49 PM) [snapback]323471[/snapback]</div>

Once more for the people in the cheap seats. But this time I'll say it slowly for you.

Yaser ... Esam ... Hamdi ... was ... a ... US ... Citizen ... whose ... 5th ... Amendment ... rights ... were ... denied ... him ... from ... 2001 ... to ... 2004.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Sep 22 2006, 01:49 PM) [snapback]323471[/snapback]</div>

Ayup. Check it out here. It's not a very long read.

And you still haven't backed up your continued assertion that the President has "ultimate wartime power". If it's so obvious you should have no trouble at all. Or you can keep ducking the question. Your choice.

 

Is there some reason we give this guy so much of our time? He offers no cogent thought on anything he says: it's simply rant and obfuscate. Facts and research are not his strong suit. Does anybody think he will ever say, "Good point there! I hadn't thought of that." He's a brick-brain with no posibility of reaching an agreement with anybody. Don't you all get tired of beating your heads against a wall?

There is no debate here. He talks in endless circles, never settling on any one thing until clarity is reached. He's an empty sail taking you nowhere. Better you should argue with your dog. It's like a junior-high school debate. Any good subject that comes along, he jumps in and ruins it with dumb, ad hominem rhetoric.

The man gets too much time off from the clinic. Wonder why medical costs are so high? This guy is eternally on PriusChat. I suggest we start him on the path to a new life. Ignore him on this site. Let him talk to himself. It's not that we are afraid of his logic, he has none. You're never going to get smarter talking to him. He is the visible symptom of the idiocy running this country.

Treat the man like the troll he is and let's move on to something more fruitful. Hell, I'd rather discuss pulse and glide than listen to any more of this. There is no requirement to respond to his banter, no matter how easy it is. It just feeds him and keeps him going one more day, makes him feel important. He probably tells all his friend [sic] what an intellectual force he is here. Put his name on your "Ignore" list and go smell the flowers. I've never seen a clearer example of a black hole: everything goes in, nothing comes out.

I love a good argument where there is give and take. Responding to him is a form of self-abuse.

Please take this in the friendly manner I intended. Nothing personal here! Hope I didn't offend anyone...