Good point. There is no place to escape. So, why worry? Probably the pizza party will be the best we turkeys can go. Corolario: enjoy today. Tomorrow will be late.
In other words, a Universalist. (The belief that everyone is saved.) Sorry, friend: that's the whole point: god pretends to be nice so we'll trust him, just like the turkey. The surprise comes at the end when it turns out that the farmer "loves" turkey, but does not love the turkey. If you catch my drift. Not eaten by love, but eaten by the one you trusted to be nice to you, when he had an ulterior motive the whole time. Just like the guy who pretends to love the girl so he can have sex with her, when all he really wants is a bit of nookie and bragging rights with his friends about how much he gets. Anywhere but on the dinner plate, if I can. Of course, just like the turkey, escape is difficult, and I might not make it. But at least I won't go willingly to the slaughter, like the turkey does. Tell me about it! My relatives were mostly crazy, and it rubbed off on me. Sorry, bra. The truth ain't as pleasant as the fairy tales. That's what we're doing, bra... eeerrrmmmm... friend.
First of all, I don't understand the origin or intrinsic value of these souls that your god would devour. Where did they come from and why doesn’t your god harvest them at their source, without letting them fester for nearly a century? Second: If you plan to pull a fast one on your definition of god, it might be wise to be more discrete, just in case She reads PriusChat and follows the trail back to the source.
For the same reason some people eat turkey instead of only ever eating eggs. The gods derive sustenance and enjoyment from the spiritual energy that souls acquire as the result of living. A new soul "from the source" as you put it, is empty; it has little or no substance. It has to live and preferably to develop gratitude towards god. Like a fattened turkey rather than an egg; or like an aged cheese rather than mere milk; or like an aged wine rather than grape juice. But I'm not worried about god coming looking for me because I don't believe in her... or him... or it. I'm just offering a scenario that's more likely (if there is a god) than the fairy-tale god with his heaven and the angels and harps and fat little cherubs. I mean, how nuts does someone have to be to think they are the most important thing in the universe: the highest and ultimate creation of a loving god? This world is a mushroom farm and we are nothing but the mushrooms for her pizza. And if you think the mushrooms enjoy being eaten, and going through your digestive track, and coming out the other end transformed into something else, I suggest you think again.
Whether one scenario is more or less likely than the other is unknowable, although I understand your fairey-tale analogy. Given the choice, I prefer to have good prevail over evil in the fairey-tale and also like the part about living happily ever after. I suppose that both fairey-tales are coping mechanisms if the universe is just the manifestation of random events, physics, and limitless time. In this circumstance, no souls are consumed by a cruel god because neither ever existed.
Probably because I whipped up my "famous triple refried bean extra hot chili with beer" and ... see below It certainly was in my case The wine glasses tinkled in the china cabinet, the cats raced into the basement to hide near the hot water tank (A bad move on their part, the pilot light could have ignited the explosive gases), and the lights flickered over the dining room table I'm pretty sure that chair I was sitting on will have to be doused in camp stove fuel and set ablaze But, to the OP, we aren't even the turkey. We're the stuffing that the cosmic god shoves INTO the cosmic turkey's butt
Lonely...or bored? If lonely...why the need for earth at all?... Just make some companions up there. Creating the earth would be sort of like a hobby, so it could be to address boredom. We certainly are drama filled species in an ever changing world..
Transformation is going to happen anyway. You don't get this body forever and if being eaten is the way you choose to transform then that is ok with me. Me thinks you worry too much.
I'm not worried at all, because, like mad-dog-one, I don't believe any of it. I'm just explaining why Pascal's wager is idiotic. It makes the wild and unfounded assumption that either god loves us and will be nice to us if we believe in him, or else there's no god at all. It completely ignores the possibilities that god is bamboozling us, or that believing in Christianity (Pascal's religion) is the wrong formula, or many other scenarios. Religion hurts us all. It creates artificial divisions between tribes and nations; it gives people justifications for wars; and it stifles cognitive skills. People who have been brainwashed from babyhood to accept uncritically the illogical and self-contradictory pronouncements of priests are far more susceptible to the rantings of political demagogues. The notion that a smelly, selfish, egotistical, violent, thieving, bloodthirsty, hairless ape with just enough intelligence to build horrible weapons, not not enough intelligence to refrain from using them, is the highest achievement of a kind-hearted god, is just too preposterous to credit! And yet that's what most religions assert. I'm trying to bring some sanity to the discussion by pointing out that we're more likely the mushrooms on the pizza, than the object of a divine creator's obsessive love.
You are mistaken about no person returning from the dead. There was one and he appeared to upward of 500 persons which asEyewitnesses would stand up in any court
"Religion hurts us all. " It also helps us all as well. Religion is a 2 sided sword. While many of us view it as an "opiate for the masses", I don't think that's necesarily a bad thing. How many troubled people would be serious problems for society without the guidance of religion? Much of the charity of the world is done by religious organizations. The hurt from religion is primarily when religion is involved with politics. And most of that is done by people who use an abuse religion to their own benefit.
daniel: I agree with your observations about the flaws of mankind, although I don't blame religion. People seem to be "smelly, selfish, egotistical, violent, thieving," ... and "bloodthirsty" ..., even without religion. One of the greatest flaws of man is our inability to rise above this tribal mentality. My major criticism of your vision of the fate of man is your reference to man as a "hairless ape." This statement serves as the proof that I have been seeking. My tribe really is superior to yours; we have great hair. :cheer2:
I presume you are referring to Jesus. None of those "eyewitnesses" you speak of gave personal testimony. There is not a single written word from any of them, and there are no accounts from anyone who spoke with any of them. There is only one book, the Bible, which claims that Jesus returned. There are no other written claims. And the Bible exists only in copies of copies of copies. There is no extant original copy of any of the books of the Bible. Thus, these "eyewitnesses" would not stand up in court, since all we have are hearsay reports claiming that those people saw something. And if he did return from the dead, then he's a zombie, and he probably wants to eat your brains. I don't blame religion for humans being What I said was that it is preposterous to imagine that would be the
Maybe we're not even the stuffing that is shoved into the cosmic turkey's butt. Maybe we are carefully shredded and dried and used as some sort of cosmic seasoning. Or perhaps our juices are squeezed out and we're used as a glaze
Not even that. I think we are the weird stuff in the plastic bag, found inside frozen turkeys. Has anyone actually identified what's in that bag? Tom
Daniel, you talk about God more than any other Atheist I know. You're also one of the most literal people I know, and now you bring up a metaphor and get on everyone else for being so literal.... If, as science suggests, we and every other thing on this planet are nothing more than energy in one form or another, then eating and being eaten are just ways that energy changes form. Relax and go with it Daniel, your energy will never cease to exist you just may not always have control over what form it takes.
