Apparently America still doesn't get it

I've already given my reasons. Even if there were no issues with respect to AGW, dependence on foreign oil, national security, driving up fuel prices for everyone else, environmental consequences of oil disasters (e.g. Exxon Valdez, Deepwater Horizon explosion and spill, Arkansas AG to investigate oil pipeline leak - CNN.com, Canadian agency says crude oil that exploded during 2013 fatal train crash as explosive as gas, etc.), there's the issue of safety of others who share the road with you.

If you come to the US, I invite you to sit in the parking lot (err... car park ) of my local Safeway on any afternoon and watch how many 5200+ lbs. battering ram of death SUVs enter and exit while peeking inside to see how many of them are driven solo or w/minimal cargo and passengers (virtually all). It's insane the # of these vehicles running around, esp. when the drivers have to go through no extra driving training nor certification.

Then, consider the average curb weight of model year 2012 light vehicles in the was 3977 lbs (from Light-Duty Automotive Technology, Carbon Dioxide Emissions, and Fuel Economy Trends: 1975 - 2012 | OTAQ | US EPA) but the above weigh 5200+ lbs.

Then, consider what happens when 2 unequal weight and size class vehicles crash into either.

Crash tests: Small cars still less safe - Apr. 14, 2009

News releases


From my post at IIHS offset crash tests between heavier, larger cars vs. minicars | PriusChat
The result shouldn't be terribly surprising due to the laws of physics since the "minicars" in question: Toyota Yaris, Smart ForTwo, and Honda Fit are in the ~1800 lbs. (Smart ForTwo) to sub-2650 lb. range and they're being crashed into 3000+ lb. cars.

A lot of people don't realize that the usual front crash tests (into fixed barriers) conducted by the IIHS, NHTSA and Europe NCAP can ONLY be compared to other vehicles w/similar weight (Frontal offset test information) and usually of the same class (Safercar.gov).

You can see individual crash videos at IIHS Small Car Test: Three Gruesome Slow-Motion Crash Videos. It lists the curb weights. Now... by extension, imagine what happens if a 2890 lb. 06 Prius crashes head on, into a 5200 lb. BRoD. Or, a ~3000 pound Gen 3 Prius crashes into a BRoD, a vehicle w/TERRIBLE accident avoidance capabilities in the form of horrible handling and horrible brakes. Or, would you rather be t-boned by a ~3000 lb. vehcle or 5200+ lb. one? Remember, kinetic energy = 1/2 * mass * velocity^2.

 

I know all about your massive SUV's. There's a US airforce base near me and they bring their own cars over, so I get to see all your weird and wonderful vehicles. The fun is watching them try to park some massive pickup in one of our small parking spaces. There are some nice motors too, a guy down the road has a lovely new Mustang which he loves to floor. I do love the sound of a good V8. To add balance though, there are a lot of US Honda Civics, US Ford Fiestas a couple Prii and even a Prius V.

The downside is that the petrol station on the base sells fuel at US prices

 

^^^
I see. What's even more ridiculous are vehicles like Ford Excursion - First Drive Review - Car Reviews - Car and Driver aka ET 3/99: Ford's new gas-guzzling SUV wins the "Exxon Valdez" award from the Sierra Club. That beast weights ~6700 to 7700 lbs, depending on trim level. I still see some of those running around.

That's worse than the 6400 lb. Hummer H2.

Both those vehicles were so heavy that their GVWRs were over 8500 lbs, thus they were exempt from US fuel economy testing (Which Vehicles Are Tested) and thus exempt from counting against that automaker's CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) numbers. And, because of their GVWR, they were not even considered "light vehicles" anymore.

BTW, I'm not as concerned about sports cars. They all have FAR better accident avoidance capabilities than BRoDs and all are much better in that department than the "average" light vehicle on the road. And, they sell in small numbers., some tiny. BRoD SUVs, unfortunately don't.

 

My mom drove a 2004 Ford excursion for 8 years! 6.0 diesel. 19 mpg. That thing was massive! don't really miss it.
Now she has a 2012 Buick Enclave and it gets about 20 mpg :0

 

You also have to remember fatalities being proximately caused by high centers of gravity:
Before You Buy An Suv... | Rollover | FRONTLINE | PBS

A Few Facts About SUVs and Safety

• There will be an estimated 70,000 SUV rollovers in 2002, in which it's estimated 2000 people will die.
• In the 10-year period during which Ford-Firestone related rollovers caused some 300 deaths, more than 12,000 people -- 40 times as many -- died in SUV rollover crashes unrelated to tire failure.
• A Ford Explorer is 16 times as likely as the typical family car to kill occupants of another vehicle in a crash.
• 1 out of 4 new vehicles sold in the U.S. is an SUV, making it the most popular type of vehicle in America. The Ford Explorer is the most popular SUV in the world.

 

Compared to the soldiers fatalities caused by numerous questionable wars: Iraq perhaps?

 

Considering that most of those soldiers died in order to protect the fuel supply needed to operate those guzzling vehicles, shouldn't we be adding those fatality counts together?

 

No, its my tax money too, needed to pay for the wars caused by our national insecurity of fueling those wasteful big rigs. The fuel taxes are no where big enough for them to pay their own way.

 

Ok, let's legislate everything. What you can wear, what you can say, how much water and electricity you can use, what job you can do, and how much money you can make, etc.

Sounds like Utopia!!! Oh wait, the Soviet experiment failed...


iPhone ?

 

We are already do some of everything on your list.

 

I think we're starting to get it, but not fast enough.

I believe minimizing human impact should preside over any economic or political factors, which are just trivial things we have made up, in comparison. The way we have taken over our habitat is horrific, considering we are just one of the >8 million species here.

It's pretty fruitless to blame any particular group or action, as there are so many concurrent disgraces that it's impossible to point at one. If one were to be singled out, I still think that the population (and its growth) is the largest factor. If the earth had a population of 7 million, each inhabitant could pretty well live in the most reckless way imaginable (aside from rampant reproduction) without anywhere close to the impact of 7 billion people living at the most minimalistic, subsistence level. The growth has to stop. It'll happen for us, before long, but it'd sure be best if we take responsibility before our habitat does.

It doesn't make much sense to judge vehicle choice. The farmer with the seldom-driven F250 may have much less to answer for than the urbanite driving a Prius several, unneeded trips per day, "just because". We can't blame commercial trucks if we want to continue to receive groceries and goods. We just have to realize that we're our own worst enemies and that we need to make a widespread and rapid culture shift if we want the planet to continue to sustain us.

 

Wow took but a few minutes to whip out the Rush Limbaugh Mein Kumpf Talking Points manual "look out the Commies are going to get us". Which only brings fear to someone still living in 1955. Its like a knee jerk reaction. Can't help yourself.

That and big Gov't is going to get us too. Its taking our FREEDOMS!!! Obama hates freedom. Obama hates America.
If you hate big gov't so much make sure you reject those Commie programs like Medicaid and Social Security.
Don't get any bigger gov't programs then those. Careful....you'll lose some freedoms.

Which is patently stupid because nothing or no one has taken away more American personal freedoms in modern times than your pal and hero GW who passed the Patriot Act. Have you ever read that act and its amendments? Please do and then maybe you'll realize what Communism really means.

But in the meantime please make sure you and your lunatic pals stay crazy all the way to 2016. Please keep your dinosaur views of the worlds hatin' on poor people hatin' on the blacks' hatin' on hispanics' & hatin' on women. Keep dreaming of a world of wealthy fat old white guys all praying to the Gods of Capitalism like the Koch Bro's. Greed is good! But don't drink the water!

I'll vote for Hilary just to watch your crowd go batshit crazy. It's going to be great!!!!

 

Wow that was a silly rant. I wasn't even born in 1955, and know nothing about the Koch bros. I would gladly give up my Medicare and SS benefits if I could stop paying into the failing system. I will be very wealthy in retirement thanks to my own hard work, not a bunch of busy body silly people like you supporting a failure of a system designed to take my wealth and give it to those that haven't earned it.


iPhone ?

 

Ok, did a Google search on the Koch brothers. Over the last decade, they have donated over $600 million dollars to the arts, education, and medical research. Their company employs around 70,000 people.

How about you, Ed?


iPhone ?

 

Yeah your a dittohead and don't know who the Koch brothers are. "I just googled them". Right.

There an ecological disaster to this planet which is pretty commonly known. They've paid more EPA fines than any company on the planet. They are the Republican power base. So your either incredibly unread & unaware Mr Wealthy or your a liar. Probably both.

 

Keep reading, there is plenty more about them.

 

Typical liberal response. Let's digress into name calling, like racist liar homophobe etc. Where are your facts? ecological disaster, based on what information specifically? More EPA fines than any company on the planet? That doesn't even make sense as EPA only applies to US. Stick to facts, not emotion. Otherwise us thinking people will never take you seriously.

Yeah, Dittohead is an awesome Slayer song. Ever heard it?

 

I don't think you are in a position to complain about name calling today, after being a participant in it last week.

 

Homophobe? Where did I say that? Luckily everything I have said is in print. But like any fine Republican facts don't matter.

The Koch Bros are an ecological disaster.

Koch Industries | PolluterWatch

They have paid the largest EPA fines every recorded. I believe there at almost $2,000,000,000 in EPA fines to date.
That's 2 billion.
But that's just the cost of doing business for these fine folks. So what if entire towns get wiped out. There's probably some democrats in there anyway.

By the way there's literally hundreds of hits on a Google Search about them and strangely not one that I can see that say's anything positive about them. Just alot of misery.

I wish they would keep there $600 million in donations and instead just stop raping every town and hillside they move into. But that's there business and there good at it. That and peddling influence to pay less fines and less taxes and get that negra out of the White House.
And these billionaires hate when any of there hard earned criminal enterprise ill gotten gains have to go to helping less fortunate folks. Praise the Lord. Kinda like you Mr Wealthy.

Btw, I'd rather say I listen to Rush Limbaugh then admit I listen to Slayer.