Anyone waiting for PIP getting the "itch" to consider a Chevy Volt instead?

So you don't use EPA mileage? 35/40 doesn't seem like low 30s to me. It seems irrational not to make flat comparisons across vehicles and always use the same metric (the EPA fuel economy number or some other consistent test).

 

I like charts too. I have had lots of problems with GM cars in the past, and swore I would never buy another one. Ironically the one that everyone hates has been the best one I have ever owned. Normally by now I have had either a transmisison fail, or a dashboard quit working.. So far though nada. Had a glitch with the backup camera that was dealer installed, but that was very quickly rectified by my Volt Advisor.

 

I'm buying a PiP. I'd definitely like to support American workers and buy the Volt, but GM has failed to deliver on its promise of reliability too many times. Quality is not the core value of General Motors. I'm sure that lots of GM people work at it, but quality is not the fanatical Priority #1 that it needs to be.

Toyota has a fantastic reputation for quality. What's more, the Plug-In Prius is at least 90% Standard Prius. Same body, same ICE, same frame... the plug-in feature is essentially a bolt-on feature to a well-tested and proven platform.

My car is not a research project. I need to get to work five days a week.

 

Even at 75 MPH, the entire capacity supplied by a plug will be used.

Unless you've got a commute that's only a few minutes long, how isn't the full potential being taken advantage of?

All those kWh will go to the traction motor for propulsion. Isn't that the point?
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Sorry, but that still makes no sense. I got way worse mileage in a Prius than it was rated, but I don't use that when I compare the prius mileage to other vehicles. If you use an inconsistent metric then any comparison is pointless.

 

BISCO, I live here too. On the expressway, depending on time of day, I can get it up to 65-75 in the Prius... on Rt 128 (95) as well.

I have an "EV Simulator" app that runs on my iPhone (called "iiEV"), it shows my average is 30-32MPH on my commute, even with sometimes being able to go 65MPH...

For me, the 2012 PiP is too close to, and not enough of an improvement, over my 2010 Package V. Maybe I'll just have to pickup the Red Leaf I orphaned over at Clay Nissan, its still there after 2 weeks now. The Volt would work, but alas I cannot fit in the damn thing.

 

Sorry, but how many of us here are actually representive of the typical consumer? We're enthusiasts or supporters, not joe six-pack.

I'd love to claim that "ordinary" people have been wanting EV for everyday transport, but that isn't the case... yet.
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I think you fell into the tunnel vision trap. Using both the plug powered battery and gas engine is taking full advantage of a plugin hybrid. As long as you don't switch into HV mode, the battery will continue to drain.

If you want a full EV experience, get a BEV. Driving Volt at 65 mph on battery is not taking full advantage as the gas engine is a dead weight.

 

That's a bit of an exaggeration. EPA is 35 city, 40 highway, and 37 combined. It's easy to avoid city traffic in hybrid mode by using the so-called mountain mode to retain or generate battery charge for local driving.

My first year of driving the Volt resulted in an overall annual average of 42 MPG (not counting EV grid charging) in gasoline hybrid mode over some 6,000 or so miles and 150 or so gallons of gas (I posted the precise numbers on another thread 2 months ago). Most Volt owners who do significant gasoline driving seem to get 36-40 on a long-term basis. Of course, most Volt buyers will have driving patterns that are a good fit for the Volt's battery range and will do only some gasoline-dependent driving. Overall, I got around 106 combined MPG meaning that I used less than half the gasoline that I would have used in my 2004 Prius to cover the same driving and I substituted low-carbon California electricity to make that happen.

I suspect I drove my Volt on gas more frequently than I will in future years because I made a bigger than usual road trip to see friends and family and show off the new car. Also, more public charging will become available at my common local driving destinations that are farther away than my work commute. For example, I sometimes drive to San Francisco. I can do that one-way 38 mile trip on battery but usually cannot yet recharge before returning home.

 

Or, in other words, burning gas at 65 MPH is a virtue -- somehow -- and the Volt would be a better car if it always burned gas at 65 just like the PiP.

Or, to paraphrase Humphrey Bogart in The Maltese Falcon:

"When you have gas in the tank your gonna use it and like it!! *smack*smack*smack*"

We should apparently just remember that this isn't a Toyota design trade-off or compromise in the PiP due to having a smaller battery pack. Burning gas is good and true and Toyota will never ever sell EREVs when batteries get better and cheaper. A real compromise is when the larger Volt battery takes away the 5th seating position.

LOL.

 

No, we just don't see the reason for an absolute.

We are also well aware of diminishing returns.

Do you really think seeing 233 MPG isn't worth it?


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Aside from gasoline anxiety disorder, what is the advantage of using only the battery above 62 mph?

 

There is nothing wrong with using gasoline, Volt owners convince themselves they are really driving a BEV, and would like the engine to never come on, yet they are unwilling to let go of their "blankey" (in this case the gasoline range extender). It's nice to be able to drive your round trip commute gas free, especially if we have another shortage or rationing in the future. For me, it's a non starter since I can't get into the drivers seat very well on the Volt.

 

Speaking for me (Volt on order, but awaiting a build date...) the advantage will be being able to drive my 22 miles to work all on electricity while keeping up with the flow of traffic on the freeway bits. Then charge at work and drive home all on electricity. Frequently on the weekends we just drive locally so I'm hoping there will be weeks where no fuel is burned. Then when visiting my folks, 90 miles each way, the engine will light up and we'll be covered for that trip as well. As someone has mentioned numerous times in this thread and others, there are optimum driving patterns for each car.

 

absolutely. i just choose to drive the speed limit which is 'mostly' 55. i know most people don't and i drive them crazy, no pun intended. i stay in the right lane when possible and allow for cars entering the highway. but i can see that for people who choose to drive faster, it may not be the right choice. why did you change your mind on the leaf?

 

So for you, it is about saving a little more gas on your commute, compared to Prius PHV. How much gas will you save?

When visiting your folks, are you okay with using about the same amount of gas as Prius PHV but 20kWh more electricity?

 

It's probably not a big deal to run the engine mildly at 62 MPH or above at a consumption rate of ~230 MPG . I think it's a perfectly good trade-off for a cheaper PHEV with a smaller battery like the PiP. But it is a trade-off and not a virtue in and of itself.

The bigger issue will be EV range with the PiP's smaller battery. The thing about the non-plug Prius is that it's a great choice for a broad group of drivers. Adding PHEV to the equation makes things more complicated. The PiP will not be the best choice for as wide a selection of people. The better choice will be splintered among different battery capacities. No doubt the PiP would be a good choice for many but there will be many for which a Volt-sized pack works better. And, the side-benefit of a larger battery pack is full-power EV so those of us with gasoline anxiety disorder can have a more pleasant and relaxing commute.

 

Real world data for the volt at Voltstats.net is 35mpg for CS mode automatically computed data (over 2 Million miles). This is exactly the EPA city estimate for the car, and 5% below EPA City/HWY average.

Real world data for 2010+2011 Prius is 47mpg on Fuelly as self-reported data. . Which is below both the city and highway estimates, and 6% below EPA City/HWY average.