Anyone missing Cindy yet?

That says it all.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ari14850 @ May 29 2007, 11:55 AM) [snapback]451495[/snapback]</div>

This is your way of saying you can't handle a hard topic. That's fine, there are no big expectations here at FHOP.

I didn't think you were new to PC, maybe just a slow learner. FHOP is more political and religious in nature than all the rest of life's topics combined. This is not the first (or last) political post here.

I'd stack my prius up to yours any day little man. 52,000 miles in 15.5 months. What you got on your chickenwagon bubba?

Did the board server or internet get full with this post, or was it with your reply?

When you look at your reply, it boils down to you having no answer on the topic. Nothing of worth to say, so you head directly for the liberal handbook on trying to make a non-issue out of the topic. How's that going for ya?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dion @ May 29 2007, 01:55 PM) [snapback]451549[/snapback]</div>

Last year intelligence estimates put Iran almost a decade away from getting the bomb. Now the estimate is one to two years at the most - so you think we should act now before they get it or trust our intelligence estimates and continue to wait?

Intelligence assets missed NoKo going nuclear.....

My cousin works for the CIA - he would be the first to tell you they make educated guesses - the President and assigned members of Congress make hard calls all the time using "intelligence" as a piece of the overall puzzle. You hanging your hat on this one aspect of the overall data used to make decisions is self-serving. But then again, some think it was ok for Saddam to murder and torture hundreds of thousands of his own people, to use WMD's on the Kurds, invade neighboring countries, go to war time and time again, develop his own nuclears program (ver 1.0 destroyed by Israel in 1981)...... I guess you think Darfur is ok too as was Bosnia, Kosovo, Cambodia,.......

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dion @ May 29 2007, 01:55 PM) [snapback]451549[/snapback]</div>

Last year intelligence estimates put Iran almost a decade away from getting the bomb. Now the estimate is one to two years at the most - so you think we should act now before they get it or trust our intelligence estimates and continue to wait?

Intelligence assets missed NoKo going nuclear.....

My cousin works for the CIA - he would be the first to tell you they make educated guesses - the President and assigned members of Congress make hard calls all the time using "intelligence" as a piece of the overall puzzle. You hanging your hat on this one aspect of the overall data used to make decisions is self-serving. But then again, some think it was ok for Saddam to murder and torture hundreds of thousands of his own people, to use WMD's on the Kurds, invade neighboring countries, go to war time and time again, develop his own nuclears program (ver 1.0 destroyed by Israel in 1981)...... I guess you think Darfur is ok too as was Bosnia, Kosovo, Cambodia,.......

 

Why change the topic? Aren't we talking about Iraq not Iran. Are our troops being killed in Iran? Let's go to every country we think is a threat and bomb them.

 

[/quote]
I support any President that puts our forces in harms way. I do not know enough whether or not this war is justified - the same as you do NOT know. Time will tell.[/quote]
This could easily have been a quote from a typical citizen of Wiemar .

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mojo @ May 29 2007, 02:32 PM) [snapback]451574[/snapback]</div>

not really unless you are trying to obfuscate or rewrite history. but if that is how you see it, fine. I would suggest reading a few history books first.

tell me, when are we going to force Jews here to wear a yellow Star of David on their outer clothing?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dion @ May 29 2007, 02:31 PM) [snapback]451573[/snapback]</div>

Yes, Iran is killing our troops - you should be aware of that - the fact that you are not is alarming. To separate Iran from this war on terror is impossible. Do they not fund and supply Hezbollah? Are they also not behind other Islamic terror groups and organizations? You think Iran is a peacefull nation?

There are a lot of other countries including Iran's neighbors that think a nuclear armed Iran would be a threat to all of mankind. Do you think Iran should be allowed to develop nuclear weapons?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ May 29 2007, 01:51 PM) [snapback]451590[/snapback]</div>

For now ,only the war dissenters.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hycamguy07 @ May 29 2007, 01:32 PM) [snapback]451529[/snapback]</div>

I just wanted to know what you believe liberal values are...and still do. We're hugely in debt under a "conservative" government, but weren't as bad off under a "liberal" government, so the question of debt is unfounded.

Most of the countries that are run by liberals do have a higher tax base than we do--it's true. And the rich are taxed more--oh shame!

And, btw, just because a country is run by liberals doesn't mean they don't have allies they will assist when called upon.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ May 29 2007, 03:25 PM) [snapback]451610[/snapback]</div>

Our national debt is increasing or decreasing?
Our Federal receipts are up or down since the Bush tax cuts?
Our Federal Spending controlled by the Dems is up or up?

What is more important, national security or national debt?

Fewer and fewer major first world countries are run by liberal governments each year - Canada, Australia, France, Germany, GB - all conservative governments.

A lot of high tax base countries have the added benefit - and a huge one here - of relying on the US of A to protect them and spend very very little on national defense - - something we should change as a nation - our willingness to defend everyone at our own expense. in fact liberal countries are usually unable to help us because they do not have the military might to offer us anything more than manpower - which is ok.

why do you hate the rich? and are they not already paying a huge share of the tax bill - silly question i know - you would have as your maximal tax rate ___%?

 

Nope.
Cindy? Who???

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ May 29 2007, 10:02 AM) [snapback]451430[/snapback]</div>

Having more infinitely compassion than you (despite not being a "Christian"), I truly, sincerely hope that you never know the pain of losing a child. And if that tragedy ever does befall you, I hope that others are more compassionate toward you.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ May 29 2007, 02:30 PM) [snapback]451570[/snapback]</div>

Dr. Berman has something in common with Scooter Libby- he outed a CIA agent! :huh:

 

Changing the topic again. We were talking about Cindy. And we did not go to war with Iraq to stop Iran from getting nuclear weapons. We went to war with Iraq for the WMDs in Iraq not in Iran. Let's keep changing the reason for us being in Iraq. I'll start. Reason number 100 Let's fight them over there, not over here.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dion @ May 29 2007, 01:35 PM) [snapback]451655[/snapback]</div>

Glad to see you've been properly brainwashed. ANYONE who believes that bit of hogwash is a fool.

We invaded Iraq for nothing more than:

1) "Free Oil"
2) US bases in the middle east
3) More "Free Oil"

Anything other than these reasons is bunk. Anyone can learn our own history and figure out that we put Iran into the situation it's in now, and the same goes for Iraq.

Ron Paul is right. 9/11 was blowback, we brought it on ourselves.

-wiiprii

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ May 29 2007, 08:01 AM) [snapback]451460[/snapback]</div>

How do you know?

Cindy Sheehan was the founder of Gold Star Families for Peace, and its spokesperson (not by her own choosing, believe me), but by no means was there “only one Cindyâ€, as you can see if you go to their website. I have heard speeches by other members of GSFP, but Cindy Sheehan was the only one to get national attention. But I have spoken to MANY family members of soldiers sent to Iraq, as I’m sure others on this forum have, who do NOT support this war. Friends of mine in RI whose son has been sent to Iraq a couple of times are active with Military Families Speak Out. Last month I went to my dentist, who was extremely upset (I wasn’t too happy with an agitated dentist putting a drill in my mouth) because her son was being sent to Iraq for a second time. Just this morning, I overhead a co-worker talking on the phone, angry that her son-in-law was ordered to go to Iraq.

Almost two years ago, before Cindy Sheehan was a household word, a peace and justice organization that I belong to paid Cindy to travel to Rhode Island and give a couple of talks. This was when she first mentioned that she was going to travel to Texas later that summer, although it wasn’t until she got there that she had the idea to set up Camp Casey. Cindy stayed at the home of a friend of mine, and I got to speak with her extensively. I found her to be a very sincere and dedicated person. She certainly was angry, but goodness knows that she had every right to be. Having had the opportunity to personally get to know her, I am certain that she never wanted all the attention that the media lavished on her, but that is what the media does- obsess with personalities, while ignoring the issues. Those of you who are taking pleasure in getting in your last licks at this woman who has suffered more than you can possibly imagine, just be grateful that this war has not required any sacrifice from you.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(larkinmj @ May 29 2007, 05:13 PM) [snapback]451669[/snapback]</div>

God knows how much i think she has suffered - toooo much. but she keeps letting herself be used, willingly, by the media who push their own agenda. she could have jumped off the train at any time. there is a complete lack of media coverage or a complete lack of media desire to seek the contrary point of view in this issue too.

Each and every soldier serving today has ample knowledge of what might lie in their future.

I would love to know what her son thought, and why he decided to serve and go. I have to believe his beliefs and those of his mother were diametrically opposite each other. And what of her husbands beliefs?

 

I feel sorry for her. Really. In the end alone with a dead son is no laughing matter. She reminds me of the war mother in Fahrenheit-9/11 - converted on the spot by Moore from being proud of her son to thinking he died for nothing. Regardless of your stance on the war, taking advantage of people in such a delicate emotional state is reprehensible. Cindy was taken advantage of and used for political purposes with little regard for her emotional well-being and the healing process, tossed aside like yesterday's garbage after her usefulness was served.

I remember feeling sorry for her when I would hear her speak. At times her speech would be slurred, and she just sounded like she was stoned or heavily medicated with anti-depressants. Other times, she spoke clearly, quickly, and with conviction.

Sad, that is all.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Les Gas @ May 29 2007, 05:30 PM) [snapback]451677[/snapback]</div>

I have met both of the women that you are referring to. I talked to Lila Lipscomb at a premeire of Fahrenheit 9/11 in Newport, RI. She was not "converted" by Michael Moore- she was "converted" by the death of her son. She is a very strong-willed woman- I doubt that Michael Moore or anyone else has the ability to influence her actions. Lila Lipscomb travelled around the country, like Cindy Sheehan, because she had something she wanted to say. The media, and especially the right-wing defenders of the Bush administration and the Iraq war, can't abide that these are strong women who refuse to accept the deaths of their children for what they believe is unjust. So the media either portrays them as traitors, or as pathethic creatures being taken advantage of by those evil liberals.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(larkinmj @ May 29 2007, 05:38 PM) [snapback]451703[/snapback]</div>

You don't have much experience with cults, do you? My opinion of Lila was formed from watching the movie beginning to end. Maybe you should put your DVD in and watch that scene again before your next reply. Classic cult tactics. I grew up in a cult - a Southern Baptist Church. I can spot these mind-job people a mile away. You are familiar with Sgt. Peter Damon's opinions of how Moore operates, right?

As for Cindy, you need to understand that I can have pity for someone, yet not think them pathetic. You should also understand that although my opinions were not formed in a vacuum, it is possible - just maybe - that I can think for myself.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ May 29 2007, 04:19 PM) [snapback]451672[/snapback]</div>

It doesnt take much to know what motivated him and every other patriotic soldier .
Their motivation was simply because "Saddam Hussein caused 9/11" and that "Iraqs WMDs" were a threat to the world.
Now tell me if that isnt pathetic.To valiantly throw away your life for nothing but lies.Because you believed the lies of the neocons.
If you knew your relation died for a lie, and did nothing about it ,you would be reprehensible.
Cindy Sheehan deserves the respect of all Americans .
Those who think their relations died for a great cause are either in denial or ignorant .
Those who fought are heroes.Those who sent them to die are criminals.

 

OP topic: Yeah, Hugo Chavez is missing Cindy terribly.



Hey, if Cindy needs a job, maybe she can go back down to Venezuela and work at Hugo's new TV station he just took over from his political opposition.

Maybe Cindy can help her buddy Hugo spread the word.

" President Hugo Chávez is misusing the state's regulatory authority
to punish a media outlet for its criticism of the government.
The move to shut down RCTV is a serious blow to freedom of expression in Venezuela. "
- José Miguel Vivanco, Americas director at Human Rights Watch.

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2007/05/22/venezu15986.htm