Any word on the Prius Gen 5?

oh - my mistake .... never dawned on me that giving examples of how markets are ficled would cause such a presumption to jump to fuel cells. Didn't mean to open that sore subsct. Rather than beat that dead horse here, there's a new thread on how China is dumping fuel cell research.

China Dumps Fuel Cell Research $$ | PriusChat

Sorry for the personel bad news. So, asking the question again, any personal hopes you hope to see if gen5 makes it to Market?
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What arbitrary measure are you referring to?

Much of the industry is still in the early-adopter stage (clearly identified by the tax-credit). So, the only real "race" so far has been to appeal to enthusiasts.

 

A tax credit that the leader hasn’t had for several quarters now and still selling their wares like hot cakes.

 

How does that relate to the race, said the tortoise to the hare ?

 

Oh - they are very poor selling here - rarely see them - it looked more like an OUTBACK in the photo on my phone - now on my laptop, yes it says IMPREZA.

Talking about PRIUS - here are the AUSSIE statistics for last month - TOYOTA only - I really can't see them keeping it much longer. But - they refuse to bring in the COROLLA HYBRID WAGON - which keeps getting "how about it" comments every time Hybrid is mentioned:

 

Please stick with post #43.

john1701a said: "Much of the industry is still in the early-adopter stage (clearly identified by the tax-credit)."
and iPlug responded with: "A tax credit that the leader hasn’t had for several quarters now and still selling their wares like hot cakes."

Know your audience.

 

I do, which made your response quite predictable.

Gen-5 Prius will follow Toyota's quest for appealing to mainstream consumers, bringing about change in subtle fashion. Claims that approach must change to an aggressive push like Tesla are pointless. That is a different audience with different goals. The next Prius will deliver improvements upon its predecessor with rock-solid reliability at a reasonable price. People may call that boring or uninspired, but that's what has successfully brought about change across the fleet. So, thoughts of embracing the plug as standard make sense. That's a reasonable next step.

 

Glad you can predict when called out on making false statements. Better if you just stop making them.

So do you now retract your false statement: “Much of the industry is still in the early-adopter stage (clearly identified by the tax-credit)”?

Nope, no other claims made by iPlug. Misattributions are the work of politicians and salesmen.

 

Bottom line, right now the 5th gen Prius is vaporware, it's anything we wish it to be.

 

I said "Much", which is quite correct. Ford, Nissan, Honda, BMW, Chrysler, Audi, Hyundai, Mitsubishi, VW, Subaru, Toyota... all still have tax-credits available. Your attempt to cherry-pick by sighting Tesla and veering us way off-topic was an obvious effort to undermine. So, no.

Vaporware comes about when a manufacturer makes a promise to deliver something quite impressive, but delivery seems questionable... too good to be true. Later when the delivery date is reached, they fail to fulfill that promise. Since Toyota has not made any such promise, there is nothing to question. We are just pointing out history and noting how that pattern can be used to set realistic expectations.

This is how I summed up GM's promise shortly after the big Volt price drop and inventory had been piling up, clear confirm of the project was seriously struggling: "The primary reason Volt was labeled as "vaporware" right from the start was its price, range, and efficiency targets didn't make sense. How could so much be delivered in so little time? Having a price of "nicely under $30,000" was absurd for 2010. There's no way a battery that large could have a cost low enough. Then to also deliver a 40-mile range even in winter along with 50 MPG following depletion, it sounded too good to be true."

Keep in mind, it should go without saying that sales must be both sustainable and profitable. So even with those promises fulfilled, there is no guarantee of long-term success... which is absolutely essential for business. Again, this is why Volt failed. Even with that validation of sales trouble back in 2013, there still could have been an effort to rekindle the technology itself. After all, a goal of rollout is to find a means to spread what had been developed to other offerings. Diversification is the next step to achieve growth.

Seeing how successful Toyota has been spreading PHEV technology from Prius to RAV4 is undeniable confirmation of showing strong potential for continued growth, as well as being sustainable and profitable. With an ever-changing market and now being at the diversification stage, Toyota has the opportunity to explore possibilities with Prius... which could make some wishes come true.

 

No, still incorrect, the early adopter stage is finished. That is why Tesla and GM haven’t had any FTC credits for several quarters. Many others missed the early adopter stage and most so far are missing the next stage. Again, you are making false attributions which again leads you to being off topic. Try again.

 

I think you are being picky on the use of the term vaporware. I'll continue to use it. You may choose not to. Toyota representatives have spoken about a 5th gen Prius but not recently.

From 1998: “I don’t think Prius can be the same as before,” said Kaneko, looking forward to the gen-5 model that is just now beginning to enter the development process. “Our role is to figure out what we can do with it. We need to find a new direction.” – Deputy Chief Engineer Koichi Kaneko, Toyota

From Toyota Australia, 1999: “And my view is the Prius nameplate will continue, but it will have a much more reduced model coverage. So, maybe one model, but it will revert back to what its original intent was and that was to showcase new technology.“So, it could be a plug-in hybrid, it could be full electric, it could be a fuel cell, it could be anything. You know what I mean?

 

With so many mainstream manufacturers bringing out hybrid versions of their current line up this year, I think Prius sales may struggle due to the huge choice of hybrids and many ICE car owners' brand loyalty or badge snobbery. That's why I think they may change tack and go BEV.

 

That already happened. Prius PHV remained a true hybrid, very actively blending both power sources to achieve optimal overall efficiency. Frequently turning on the engine for short bursts was a fundamental of the design. Prius Prime changed that, switching to an approach which favored EV even when that wasn't the ideal choice. So whatever the next configuration, it will predominantly be electric. That would usher in a BEV model, in combination with a PHEV model. After all, leading the way for other vehicles in the fleet is what Prius has done well. Think about how Hyundai/Kia and BMW have already delivered that very multi-model approach. Seeing Toyota do the same thing isn't much of a stretch.

 

Well, on an equally positive note, we see statistics look good for plugin sales. Even though the Prius / other HEV's never hit this great a percentage of sales in the US, it looks like plug-ins, despite low gas prices - have busted out a new high percentage of sales.

U.S. Plug-In Electric Passenger Car Sales Hit 5.5% In January-April 2020

Oddly enough, the Prius Prime hasn't sold well in Europe, in comparison to the regular Prius. (Battery acquisition? Who knows)
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Where do you get your news on China from? Do a google search and you will see that China is far from walking away from Hydrogen. I know as a Tesla Fanboy you don’t want to accept that Hydrogen is still growing and is very much the future for all countries. 'Hydrogen Valley' powers China's fuel cell industry - Nikkei Asian Review

 

And a superb illustration of that is (particularly relevant to Australia where EVs are barely visible):

• TOYOTA brings RAV4 Hybrid - avalanche of demand - at one stage quoting over 6 mths wait, 80% of RAV4 sales last month were HYBRID;
• SUBARU promises a FORESTER HYBRID. Big advertising, big expectations. It arrives with this badge:
• Journalists get to drive them - it's not a HYBRID really - just a "MILD HYBRID" - giving a miniscule improvement in l/100 and CO2. And a price premium more than TOYOTA has for any of their well developed, successful hybrids.

Huge disappointment.

Meanwhile in AUGUST, RAV4 was the highest selling car in Australia - 4405 RAV4s were hybrids and the remaining 420 were petrol-only models - 92% HYBRID. And only 2 PRIUS sales - LEXUS even sold 9 CT-200Hs, a poor car compared with a Gen 4 PRIUS and much more expensive - just has a "better" badge.

Incidentally, EVs fell by 30 per cent with 155 sales in August (better than July where they dropped by about 40%. Plug-in hybrids in August 2019 = 103. HYBRID - 6436 sales.

 

No news? Time for a "Gen 5 2023"!

 

we can barely get any new cars as it is, and now there's a ship full of porsche drifting around the atlantic