Any reason to buy anything else but a Model 3?

I hadn't ever heard that.
Link? Almost doesn't sound legal, especially in the US. After all - the driver's door might be caved-in. That same rumor was floated about the X for almost 9 months. Then some dude published a YouTube video to the contrary, showing how to manually open the Falcon Wing doors ( pull cables behind removable speaker covers) in an emergency. Not doubting - just wanting to see what's published about it on the 3.
Thx!

I hear you. And there are some that will drive 750 miles straight, only stopping 6 or 7 minutes to refuel, & they do that multiple times every month. That's what i already said .... the sub 1% minority will usually find a ride that works best for them. That minority should not look at an ev -
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And as I keep telling you, that's more like 95%, not 1%.

On my route, I saw several Tesla's (S and X) north of Las Vegas NM on the highway, but not a single one south of there, despite being south for three days and two nights. There's not a single charger south of there either. Coincidence? Don't think so.

I've had my Prime since April. I've been on three out of state trips in that time. Not one of the three could have been done in any Tesla currently available without substantial delay (several hours at least, overnight in some cases) and/or diversion. One of the three couldn't have been done at all. That's how it is outside the high traffic corridors with today's charging infrastructure.

 

I have no doubt this is normal for you. As others have said though, what you experience is not typical.
Here is a nice cross section of people with no dog in this fight. Very few of them drive 750 miles in a day, ever. There was one though (professional truck driver).
New Member Question: How many miles is "normal" to drive each day?

I know a number of sales people, two who own Tesla’s and use them for sales calls. They don’t have the issues that you have.
Yes, there are some people for whom an EV won’t work. But I think the percentage is a lot closer to 1% than your 95% number.

 

Neither do I, and that has nothing whatsoever to do with why these trips were not possible or practical on a 100D. It's because I went away from the routes where Supercharger stations were located, and where there were no destination chargers at my destinations. In two cases, a 400 mile range would have allowed the trip (barely), in one I would have required a 600+ mile range, most of which (over 80%) was at 75mph.

My latest trip (the one needing 600+ miles of range) had daily drive distances of:

129 miles
425 miles -> Last charger at 205 miles on this leg, no charger at destination
131 miles -> No chargers anywhere
225 miles -> Charger at the end of this leg (576 miles after previous charger)
202 miles
133 miles

As I keep saying, something like 95% of people in the Continental US would make at least one trip during the car's lifetime that would be impossible or very impractical in a current 100D with current charging infrastructure. Note that that's not the same as saying 95% of people can't make most of their trips with a 100D - they can, quite easily. Heck, I make around 95% of my trips electric-only in my Prime with its 25-35 mile range and L1 charging only. But those long trips off the beaten path are just not currently doable with current charging infrastructure. You can go cross country on the major interstates, but get far from those and you're in trouble quickly. I'm currently planning a trip for next summer that has one leg that's over 800 miles between charging points without a major diversion that would add overnight stays to the trip.

 

This is comedy gold. So hilarious how one person can have their head stuck in the sand so much that he refuses to see any other point of view other than what his experiences are or what he "believes" his "research" told him. If everyone was like you no innovation would ever happen on this earth. Glad that isn't the case.

 

...well if you think that's funny, has the OP ever returned to this thread?

 

Are you sure that you are considering the alternate point of view? It's commendable that you are willing to make some extra effort to go all electric and make a few sacrificies if needed, but this is a discussion about the public at large and I think it's not so black and white what people will find acceptable.

 

What do you do when there are no gas stations around?
Certainly drivers of electric cars need to do some route planning for cross-country trips with the current distribution of chargers, and people who live in or are visiting North Dakota or Montana need to plan around the lack of fast charging. Still, from my point of view, at least half of the people in the US that take longer car trips are going to be staying pretty close to major interstates and roads containing fast chargers, or at least level 2 chargers, for their entire drive. Esentially, I agree that the current EV charging infrastructure is not yet sufficient for those that go "off the beaten path." But I don't think there are nearly as many people who actually drive that far away from major roadways and populated areas as you claim.

 

When using statistics it's important to consider how many people are even able to charge their vehicle. Generally it's people with houses. Millions of people live in apartment or condos and most of them cannot charge, so it's irrelevant how many miles they drive per day so they should be excluded from the statistics. Another big reason to exclude them is because even though there are certainly low income people who own or rent a house, I would say that most people who own a house have a certain level of income, and that makes them more likely to take longer trips. So for really accurate statistics you need to narrow it down to households who have the ability to charge their cars, then look at the driving patterns of those households. I think you will probably see a difference from looking at the entire population.

 

The discussion is about what will work for the general public. Yes, I absolutely agree that there is a very large chunk of people out there that current EV options and charging infrastructure just won't work for. I am laughing at the fact that he thinks it's 95% and refuses to move off that number.

Another angle to think about it from:
What percentage of households live in a 2 or more car household? (I believe around 60%, give or take a few points)
What percentage of those households need a very large range for both vehicles? (pure speculation, but I'm conservatively guessing not more than 30%)
That's quite a few vehicles in America that could be switched to EV today, even with no change in charging infrastructure, and even just using basic 120v at home.

 

This is a good point. Again though, it is a matter of percentages. Cars don't have to work for everyone to be successful.
Also, while calculating the numbers. It would be more accurate to compare the number of car owners, not the number of people, with access to car charging.
While it is true a large percentage of people live in multi-housing units. There is a higher rate of car ownership in single dwelling homes than in multi-housing units.
And don't forget, multi-housing units are adding car chargers, and will continue to do so.
I also know people that regularly charge at work rather than home.

And, even if you assume worse case scenario in which only people with charging at home will buy an EV, that is still a very big market.

 

95% ... not 99%. Okay - whatever, 4% difference is statistically the same thing.

95% Of All Trips Could Be Made In Electric Cars, Says Study

of course that study was a ½decade ago - when the infrastructure was REALLY small. Times are truly changing.
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Actually I didn't forget, that's why I said "most" apartment and condo dwellers

Also I don't factor in charging at work because that is just a supplement to home charging. I think it would be extremely rare for someone to purchase a BEV when they have to solely depend on charging at work. I think it's more likely for someone to purchase a PHEV in that situation as they can still use their cars on weekends even after the EV range is depleted. Also if the work situation changes they won't be stranded like they would with a BEV.

Again you need to remove non-charging capable households from the statistic, as a big part of that 60% live in apartments and condos, most of whom cannot currently charge.

Also I think the two car household situation is somewhat of a given and never been in question. So I agree that in general two-car households who have charging capability for many if not most of them owning a BEV will work.

 

i thought about that, yes .... but even in most of his other handful of posts - that seems to be all the input that ever comes about.
On the other hand, if you follow his Avatar, it clearly looks like he is covertly hoping members will follow the link to his online website business - based up near the Cali Bay Area. just sayin' ....
Not the first member who's only here to pick up a little extra business, & skirt paying a little something to Danny - the way legitimate business operations do .

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And yet I have three engineering patents in my name and have received several innovation awards from my employer.

 

Will it kill the people riding in it though?

 

There are 120,000 of them in the US and I have a 600+ mile range. I've never once found myself out of range of a gas station. Quite the contrary.

Usually, but not always.

Remember, 30% of them live off the beaten path (or further), and the test is whether they do that even once during the life of the car, not whether they do that regularly.

On the coasts where population density is higher, this is likely less of a problem. In the center of the country where distances are longer and chargers are farther apart, this can be a pretty big problem.

 

I don't think that has anything to do with making fud more believable - any more than the genius Thomas Edison spreading fud about AC (alternating current) - but that's what he did.

Thomas Edison's history of electrocuting dogs, horses and people - NY Daily News
And no, no one's doubting anyone's ability to think here, I hope. Sometimes people are just clouded by there viewpoint. And like I said, that's okay. We can still show grace & be respectful of each other's viewpoints & I thank everyone for keeping it (relatively) civil.
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I got to my opinion from a careful and detailed study of the NHTS survey data and from other data. I didn't pull it out of the air.

It's simply a fact that Tesla has installed their charging systems on the most traveled routes. Duh! Of course they did! But that leaves a huge number of less traveled routes unpopulated with charging stations of any sort. Yet, there are plenty of people living along those routes and plenty of places to visit along them as well.

Hopefully it won't always be so, but that's the situation at this moment.

 

Agreed! When we got our 1st Ev, almost a decade ago -you could go very few places reliably. yet now? The infrastructure is moving along at leaps & bounds. Not perfect for everyone, but the great thing is it gets better daily.
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