ANWR, the last pristine wilderness. Oh really?

Quick comment to "The Polar crew" without copying the entire post again! To paraphrase, " With diesel prices where they are, it will be the trucking industry that will be hurt" DUH!

Perhaps we should get past the idea that truck transport and "just in time" manufacturing makes sense. Perhaps we should re-invest in our rail infrastructure. As anyone knows railways are wayyyyy (choose your number) more efficient than trucks.

I get so angry how we subsidize hwys. On the other hand most major railroads were built with land grants that have proved as profitable for the rail companies than hauling freight, probably more. Perhaps if the major rail companies won't invest in infrastructure we should consider taking back the land! (Sure!!!) BN is the largest single landowner in the State of Washington, with millions of acres in valuable timber lands amongst other lands. Weyerhouser got much of it's land though railway deals for land.

At the very least, we should demand that land grant Rwys provide priority right of way for passenger service, especially in urban areas!

Icarus

 

Please do. My background is varied, due to having a B.Sc in Chemical Engineering and a B.Sc. in Computer Science. In petrochemicals, I have limited experience with exploration and production. My primary area of expertise is control systems

That said, I have been out in the "field" several times in my career, as it related to control systems and monitoring. No offense, I wouldn't wish that life on anybody! Dirty, dangerous work

 

For goodness sake folks,get a grip.
I fail to notice great wastelands in the middle east desert due to drilling.
If we can drill in Anwar for ANY oil do it!
I remember when the pipeline was going to ruin Alaska,guess what?
Don't get me wrong,I drive a Prius and own a Neuton mower,looking for solar applications for my home.
Just my small contribution.
It just drives me nuts when these wacko's make things up.
Look at the facts with "eyes wide open" (Trekkie's lingo).

 

Who you calling a wacko? What is being made up? Do you care to discuss a specific topic in which you do not agree?

Are you saying there is no environmental degradation happening at all? Even equador? Care for a brief glimpse? "Dream People of the Amazon" (I've seen the othe rpics and video from the producer during a visit to our campus)

 

Did you follow my links to the Ft. McMurry tar sands. Pretty eye opening.
As for conventional drilling on the continent. Why is it that there are vast tracks already under lease that AREN'T being drilled?

I have heard that there is a large field in the Wiliston formation of ND that has WAY more potential than ANWR if we really need to drill more.

It's time we tame this oil addiction and put serious money and effort into conservation and renewables. If we all went from 15mpg average to 30 mpg average we would go a long way to A: bring down prices, and B: cut Co2 emissions considerably. Not too hard to do. Same for our houses and industries as well. CFL's for example have a higher upfront cost, but a MUCH lower lifecycle cost.


I for one am tired of "borrowing" from future generations for the sake of my cheap lifestyle.

Icarus

 

So true,
Exactly what WE should be doing.
Bravo-eye's wide open!!

 

And yet you still think it a good idea to drill in ANWR? I don't get it. If you do the research you find that it A: will do little if anything to bring down the price of gasoline (not even accounting for the increased Co2, and the environmental costs of drilling, transport from the High Arctic!) and B:because if A is true, it will only prolong the misguided notion that we can "drill our way" out of higher prices. IMHO the current price does more to advance conservation than anything else. Does this indeed hurt some people in the pocketbook? Yes, but the fact is that if we were paying the true cost of our "cheap" lifestlye, particularly energy, the price would be higher still. Even if oil were $5/barrel, and gas were $.35 we still need to get a grip on our carbon emissions. It is largely coincidental that the two are happening in tandem.

As I have said many times before, it is time we pay the real cost of our "affluenca" We have much, cheap. The developing world has less. We are not entitled to, by God or birthright, for this. It's time to look beyond the end of our own noses!

Icarus

 

I would like to agree more but I cannot. It's perfect.

As per my previous post with links to paper and report after report on studies detailing how to regain energy independence I will state that we cannot drill our way out of our current mess. We have the technology and materials to cut our energy consumption by a large margin which would go a long ways towards energy independence, global stability, resiliency, and make major contributions to the societal and environmental health of our nation and indeed the global community.

Walmart, as one of the richest corporations in the world, hired an environmental think-tank to help them reduce energy consumption and "green up" their buildings and transportation sector (while boosting profit potential and positive returns on investment). Any guess as to who they hired? If Walmart and the Dept. of Defense is willing to put stock in this organization don't you think we should at least "hear" what he has to say? Nah, listening to radio talk show hosts and the news is probably better huh?

 

I have a pristine swamp (Congaree) right down the road from me. I haven't been there but I'm told it's about as un-touched as you can get.

 

Ever been to Saudi, Qatar, or UAE? I already rank it as a "wasteland" but then I've never been overly fond of deserts

What is "anwar?" Some street slang? I've brought it up before regarding ANWR, tar sands, Hibernia, etc: how much are you willing to pay per barrel to get the resource? With oil priced reliably above $100 a barrel, it is now economic - that is slightly profitable - to get these resources

There is a culture of secrecy and fear regarding Prudhoe and the Alaska Pipeline. If you become too vocal, bad things can happen to you

Intro

Given the recent incidents of mysterious "corrosion" in the pipeline,

BP shuts largest U.S. oil field due to damaged pipeline - Aug. 7, 2006

I'm astonded that they appear to have neglected to plan for, or deliberately ignored, the impact of Geomagnetically Induced Current on the pipeline system.

GIC in pipelines

FMI/SPACE

Scandinavian pipeline operators are well aware of this hazard, it dramatically increases construction, maintenance, and operations cost

I've been described as "whacky fun" but never as wacko

 

washingtonpost.com


Read page 2. It is about the Cuba/China oil agreement.


Also I have changed my mind. For the last 2 decades we had cheap energy and we have been wasting it. We are squandering a vital energy source that our children and grandchildren will need. I think more drilling will result in a lower price, but we will just continue to drive our SUVs and waste it.

 

You seem like a pretty reasonable guy. If you have the time I urge you to read some of what Amory Lovins has to say about drilling an energy independence. I think you'll like it. He is not the "stereotypical" environmentalist by any means. He also states that additional drilling will not cause a decrease in oil prices.

 

Since the cost of production wrt ANWR or other remote, difficult locales is currently north of $60-$80, that claim of 62 cents a gallon is rather suspicious to me.

How are they amortizing the pipeline cost? How are they amortizing the exploration and development cost?

When you consider the American oil consumption 7-8 billion barrel a year - or about 294,000,000,000 US gallons per year or 805,479,452 US gallons per day - at most you are influencing 365 million barrels or 15,330,000,000 US gallons per year. That is about 42,000,000 US gallons per day

Hardly earth shaking. Even assuming I got the math right, which after 4 beers is dubious at best

 

One aspect of the ANWR drilling that is totally ignored is that it is a Wildlife Refuge, not just some tract of government land.

Once the concept that fuel extraction overrules all other property uses, then please hope that your property is not over a coal seam or any other potential fuel source.