Answers from Tesla

So the zebra require a motorcycle license?

But is then street legal and can go as fast as it wants?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SomervillePrius @ Mar 15 2007, 12:15 PM) [snapback]406085[/snapback]</div>

Yes I think in most states it requires a motorcycle license to be able to drive one. An Xebra is considered an enclosed motorcycle because of the 3 wheels. (I do have my motorcycle license so I'm fine with that requirement)

You can make the Xebra go as fast as you can modify it to go. (obviously at a modifed cost though) I have already decided I'm going to stay to having 2 vehicles. One cheap gas vehicle and one cheap electric vehicle. The FULL coverage insurance I would pay for an Xebra is $174 a YEAR through Progressive. (I pay $214 a year for my Gem)

There are NO road restrictions for the Xebras. However in my opinion an Xebra for most would need to be modified past stock to get the speed over 40mph and the range at least 40. Right now the stock Xebra wouldn't even satisfy me range wise. They just announced a new optional upgrade on the batteries and charger to make it go faster and have a greater range. (stock range is only 15-20 miles and the upgrade is suppose to get you close to the 40 miles)

They are made in china so of course the quality isn't going to hold a candle to something like the Rav4, Telsa etc. If you can deal with that then I feel the Xebra is a GREAT, cheap electric vehicle. (even over the Gem if you live in a cold area since the options you would need are about $5K alone for a cold area)

If someone HAS to buy an electric car Made in the USA then the Gems are. They are made in Fargo ND.

The real funny thing is I got a speeding ticket on my way to go test drive/buy my Gem. :lol: I now keep that paid speeding ticket in my Gem as a perk to driving an Nev. I certainly don't have to worry about a speeding ticket I guess now unless I'm in a 15mph school zone.

I had to re-adjust my perk list to add that speeding ticket in it. The TOP reason I like driving electric is how quiet they are. I just have always loved that about them. When someone wants to check out my electric truck that's the first thing I show off about it. I put the key in and turn it and tell them my vehicle is on and running. They just look at me like this cause they can't hear NOTHING! B) (And I don't have to pay $100,000 for that perk! )

 

Tracy i must admit that the GEM was not even on my radar, but after listening to you and talking with a friend who works for City of Olympia Parking Enforcement (they drive several different NEV's) i am really looking at that option hard now. my commute is 5.3 to 5.6 miles one way (one way streets make my commute different in each direction. for the price, my options would run close to $14,000 (gotta have tunes!!) as i would also do heat, hard doors and a mod to go faster. what is your range?? i would have to get the 4 seater.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveinOlyWA @ Mar 15 2007, 01:15 PM) [snapback]406143[/snapback]</div>

Dave, No offense to Gem BUT I really think you should look at the Xebra first. The reason why are these reasons in your case:

1. The Gem is bought as a base vehicle. (naked) so since you live in a cold area your going to be paying more than $14,000 IF your also going to modify it to go faster. If you were in CA and like to buy American Made I would say a Gem would be good

The Xebra for around $10K includes all you want except if you need to go faster than 35miles per hour or need more range. For about $1,200 you can get the better batteries for more range on the Xebra.

For the Gem you would need ALL of this:

Hard doors ($2K now for a 2007)--BUT that's JUST for a 2 seater--LOTS more for a 4 seater
Gel Batteries (about $500 extra)
heater defroster (about $400 extra)
Tunes (about $700 extra)
AND I'm sure you will want MORE than that.

The Xebra sedan is a 4 seater and comes with ALL the above at no additional cost. (well except you will want to get the better batteries for the longer range) You may want to get a better stereo/speakers for the Xebra.


AND the 4 seater I think starts at $12K base. So by the time your all done with your addons your probably looking at $20K.

I get about 20-25 miles of range IF I don't use my heater. (which I don't unless absoltley nessecary) However Gemcars did just come out with a updated GemEL truck with different batteries to get approx 40 miles of range. If you use your heat you lose about 25% of your range. Next winter I plan to get some type of small propane heater. My feet just got a bit cold in my Gem even when I used the heater. (heater is high up in the dash--works okay but not on my feet)

Dave can I call you to discuss this??

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Mar 15 2007, 01:07 PM) [snapback]406137[/snapback]</div>

Oh wow I'm sorry to hear that. I hope your operation went well. I'm a pretty tough person but I'm a BIG baby when it comes to pain, needles, etc. I hope you recover soon. Things must be going well if your getting your catheter removed.



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Mar 15 2007, 01:07 PM) [snapback]406137[/snapback]</div>

I just get all the posts e-mailed to me and rarley ever go on the yahoo Xebra site except if I'm going to look at a pic of a mode someone did to their Xebra


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Mar 15 2007, 01:07 PM) [snapback]406137[/snapback]</div>

Daniel I'm checking now with my Xebra friends to see what the law on this is for WA. Can I ask you why you couldn't get a motorcycle license? (you can pm or call me privatley if you want) If you did have to get one you should be able to use your Xebra for the driving part of the test.

 

Dave, Ok I guess it wouldn't be as much as $20K. This is what I just built for you:

Model: GEM e4
Type: 4-passenger
Base MSRP: $9,695.00
Destination & Handling: $750.00
Fuel Surcharge: $75.00

Selected options:

Alpine Stereo System $695.00
Heater/Defogger $425.00
Scuff Guards $75.00
Hard Doors $2,795.00
Maintenance-Free Gel Batteries $445.00

Current MSRP* $14,955.00

PS If you want your tush heated add
Heated Seats $595.00
to your price!

However the new range batteries are currently ONLY available on the 2 seater truck. So with that fact I still have to say I feel the Xebra 4 door sedan would be a better bet for you.

 

I'm glad to see a few of the Prius people taking a look at the electric vehicles that ARE out there TODAY. I'm a Prius driver myself. I have to tell you going FULL battery electric has been the BEST thing I have EVER done. You don't even know how great it is. I mean just think of what it would be like to STAY in stealth mode all the time.

I REALLY truely believe after 9 months of driving an electric vehicle that I need to tell others about them. I mean I just get so many perks from driving one.

Once I went FULL battery electric there is NO going back. Even if I want to move up to the more expensive ones. I don't think I will because of my personal principles of it but I just KNOW that I will always want to be driving an electric vehicle. I have never in my life felt so compassionately about something as I do this. If it didn't work out I would have just sold my vehicle and been done with it. I was worried about that at first because I have in the past made a BIG expensive mistake buying an RV I though I would love and use all the time and then I didn't. I drive my electric truck everyday. My Prius sits. Why would I want to drive anything BUT electric.

PLEASE PLEASE listen to me. IF you want an electric vehicle and price is a factor please know that there is stuff available today. I can't be the only one where price makes a difference. I just can't spend my money to lavishly. It's not in my blood. I mean if you want to buy a Telsa go for it. It will be great for you. But it's just not for me even though I could get one.

I wish there was someway I could have you easliy see what it's like to drive electric. It's kinda like having a kid. You don't know how great life can be like having a kid until you actually have one and then it's tough to explain it to someone that's thinking about having a kid.

I say what Daniel is saying. Even if you want something better than a Gem or an Xebra maybe get one of those and then move up as something better comes along.

I swear once you go electric there's NO going back. I'm sure you have at least heard the saying it's better than sliced bread. Well I'm hear to say driving electric IS better than sliced bread. B)

Geesh sorry to go on and on but I can't help myself.

PS One other thing I have to say :blink:

At this time an electric vehicle for most people can ONLY be a 2nd vehicle. For me it suprisingly ended up being my main vehicle now. IF you can afford to and have the room for a 2nd vehicle to me going cheaper with one of your 2 vehicles is the better way to go in my opinion. Whether it be a cheaper gas car and an expensive electric vehicle or the other way around. I'm choosing to sell my Prius and go cheap both ways. I mean why have 2 expensive vehicles? Ok do it if you want to. I just don't believe in investing in something that only depreciates. I bought an expensive RV and got peanuts for it after letting it sit around for SO long being unused.

Ok I guess you can do what you want. It's your life. BUT maybe if you have a wife or hubby you can justify it to them by doing what I'm doing. (I'm single so no need to worry about that )

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Mar 15 2007, 01:07 PM) [snapback]406137[/snapback]</div>

Daniel, Ok here is the info from an Xebra owner in WA and what is required to register one:

Yes - In WA you can have a bike endorsement, a trike endorsement or a
both endorsement. To get the trike license (which is required to
drive the Xebra) you just go and write a written test (very easy -
just pay attention to the statisitics in the study guide) and then
make an appointment for the skills test. You just have to drive the
Xebra through an obstacle course in a parking lot.

So the answer is, yes you need a trike license endorsement, but you
don't have to pass the two-wheeled skill test to get the three
wheeled endorsement.


Does this help you Daniel?

 

Tracy, thanks for bringing these car options to my attention. I checked into the GEM and the short range and diminished safety factor are too big of a problem for me to overcome. They've informed me that even with the newest battery available, I would only get an approximate 30 mile range. This is fine in the summer, but with my cold winters, and the diminished battery capacity while sitting at my work without charging, I probably wouldn't make it home at night. Also, they told me that the newer models require a dedicated circuit for charging.

The Xebra looks a little more interesting to me because of the hard body. I'm going to research this a little to see if it would be a more practical solution for my scenario.

Just wanted you to know that you've reached another member of the potential EV audience. Thanks!

 

ok i went to the Xebra site and there is one in Kirkland for 10,500 on the sedan so will probably go up there and take a look. also went to a Gem car dealer today in Auburn and test drove a gem. as tested it was 16,000 but had a bunch of stuff i would not order. the options i wanted will cost just about 14,000 so that is a bit too much for a special use vehicle. but the Xebra does look interesting and at 10,500 is what i am willing to pay. its faster 40 mph, less range 20-25 but that is still enough for most of what i want it for. and one way or another, no matter what i get, i will be working hard to get those lead acid batteries out and some NiMH or something better in.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tracysbeans @ Mar 15 2007, 08:09 AM) [snapback]406073[/snapback]</div>

As was mentioned by another... there are other issues beyond insurance. The big one on my mind is safety at higher speeds. 25 is about as fast as I'd want to go in a GEM unless they get bigger tires, better steering and better brakes!

This is GREAT. Takes some of the load off!

Ouch! This is only because there are no (and don't beat me for saying it) "full featured" EVs available. Even when these cars were available, people were STILL saying that they made good "second" vehicles. Yet everybody who drove/leased/owned them used them for the PRIMARY vehicle. It isn't as if most people travel more than 100 miles EVERY DAY. Something like the Rav covers us 95% of the time. When the trip is too long, we take our SECOND vehicle - the Prius - and suffer the low efficiency.

That's why you should have gotten a Rav4EV! Bought for $31k, driven for 4+ years, and currently selling with 50k miles for ~$50-$60k. Best invenstment that I've ever accidentally made! And yes - a fluke of supply/demand. I sure didn't see it coming or I'd have bought about six of them! And yes - these are the same vehicles that most folks think need "new batteries" every couple of years at great expense. Ha. We've got several private owners now with well over 100k, and their range is still the same as when the cars were new. Amazing.

That said, I'd rather spend my money on bicycles.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roguenode @ Mar 14 2007, 08:33 PM) [snapback]405861[/snapback]</div>

Are you talking about NEVs here or "full-featured" EVs? The full-size EVs have had, and would have in the future - all the same safety stuff that any other car on the road has - and MINUS the 11-30 gallon gasoline bomb onboard. And as for cold weather performance - as long as the vehicle uses a modern battery - NiMH or Li-Ion, there would only be mild range reduction in the cold. We have people driving the Rav4EV in the serious cold, and the worst range degredation brings total range down to about 90 miles.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Mar 15 2007, 04:41 AM) [snapback]405982[/snapback]</div>

Two questions here, and I can only answer one. The folks I know on the Sig 100 list are buying it *totally* because it is the best bet for the first *real* EV available. That it is a sports car is just a minor annoyance to most of them. The rest on the list though? No clue? I can account for six of them that are in the group I listed above. Buying it completely for the EVness alone. Much like I bought the Rav4EV. I had NO desire for this configuration of vehicle, but I had a choice of exactly... this car.

Much as I love Tracy (and especially her enthusiasm!) I'm in the same boat in regard to NEVs. I think they're great for many things and many situations... just not mine. And I speak for at least a little bit of experience, having "borrowed" one for two weeks. For my situation they would literally replace bicycle miles - almost never automobile miles. I can bicycle as fast and much futher than a NEV, so for the trips a NEV can make, I simply don't drive. But hey - that's just me, and we all have different needs.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tracysbeans @ Mar 15 2007, 06:14 AM) [snapback]406010[/snapback]</div>

OK, I hope you don't equate these two sentences. The feeling of driving electric is GREAT. Driving something like the Tesla goes WAY the hell beyond just driving electric. And if you can find that kind of good lovin' in the GEM, then you have found cheap nirvana!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveinOlyWA @ Mar 16 2007, 12:44 AM) [snapback]406584[/snapback]</div>

Dave, Actually your looking at the right time at the Xebra. Zap is just now offering some updated batteries that will offer more range. (I think the range with the new Discovery batteries will be close to 40 miles)

I would be fine with the speed of the Xebra since I currently drive something slower BUT I just want to get the extra range. I mean most of the time a range of 20 miles would be fine but it would be nice to have 35-40 just in case.

So Dave you should get the updated new Discovery batteries. I think it will run an extra $1,200 but to me it would be worth it for the extra range.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Mar 16 2007, 01:22 AM) [snapback]406609[/snapback]</div>

Yeah BUT even if your "full featured" EV ends up as your primary vehicle you still need that secondary vehicle for trips to Grandmas. Actually right now my not "full featured" Gem IS my primary vehicle. I'm selling my Prius and then trying to decide if there is anyway I can get by not having a gas vehicle sitting around collecting dust. So I'm actually in a bind trying to figure out what to do. I might make it through the summer without a gas car since I do have a gas moped I could use if there was ever a reason I needed to go further than my Gem can go. There is a Enterprise Rentacar place in my frontage road I could try to hookup with an rent a car when I need one? Not sure what to do. I might not have no choice but to get a 2nd gas vehicle.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Mar 16 2007, 01:22 AM) [snapback]406609[/snapback]</div>

Yeah but I'm not in CA so I would have had a hard time getting one. PLUS as you <SHOULD> know IF I had gotten a Rav4 I would never though about selling it. So I wouldn't have worried about getting lucky with the resell value going up on it.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Mar 16 2007, 01:22 AM) [snapback]406609[/snapback]</div>

Yeah and it's GREAT that I have at least a few people listening to me! B)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SSimon @ Mar 15 2007, 03:42 PM) [snapback]406231[/snapback]</div>

Great! I'm glad your at least checking them out. Zap just announced a new set of batteries for the Xebra that can get a range around 40 miles. The batteries do lose range in winter if you use the heater. I tried not to use my heater unless it got really cold. I would say you would lose about 25% of your range using the heater. Maybe about 10% for it just being cold. Next winter I'm going to try to get some kind of small propane heater to use so I don't have to run off my batteries.

I hope you will check out the Xebras. Our Xebra yahoo group is great and everyone is helpful if someone has any minor issues with their Xebras. It's fun seeing this group make sure that this new vehicle is taken care of in everyway.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Mar 16 2007, 01:49 AM) [snapback]406630[/snapback]</div>

Hey Darell I'm quite aware of the fact that an Nev won't work for most people because of the speed of them. That's why I tell more people about the Xebras than I do about my Gem. Since the Xebra can go 35mph and most peoples city roads are 35mph then an Xebra might work for them if they get the better batteries. I would NOT buy an Xebra with the stock batteries. I hear the range is only about up to 15 miles on their stock batteries. Also a buyer of an Xebra would have to understand that the Xebras are made over in china so the cheaper quality is going to be a factor. They have to understand since it's a new electric vehicle their are going to be minor issues they might have to occasionally deal with. I have already found a company here locally that can take care of any EV I buy. Whether it is fixing a minor issue or upgrading it if I want to add something to it.

Now biking isn't for me so I scratched that mode of transportation off of my list. It's just not something I'm interested in even though it's the cheapest/best for your body mode of transportation.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tracysbeans @ Mar 16 2007, 07:15 AM) [snapback]406749[/snapback]</div>

It is true! I'm pretty hunky!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Mar 16 2007, 06:07 PM) [snapback]406970[/snapback]</div>

LOL

SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT:

Priuschat members that want:

"Full featured ev" or bike info talk to Darell

Prius members who want:

Info on the cheapest electric vehicle currently on the market talk to me.

We are at 2 different levels and both happy where we are sitting (I mean driving) B)


However there is ONE thing I've got over Darell right now. I have stuff available (in production) and he has ZIP! B)

 

No fair. Your job it cheaper and easier. I quit.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Mar 16 2007, 06:27 PM) [snapback]406985[/snapback]</div>

No that's not true Darell. My job is actually harder. Your behind stuff that is "full featured" with ALL the bells and whistles and people just have to have a large wallet. In my case I'm trying to help the people who would love an EV and be able to drive electric BUT they can't or don't want to shell out $50K+. Cause you and I know what's said to be in the pipe line is ALL stuff at $50K and up at this point. I TRY to let people know you can have most of the same at a much much lesser cost. You might be more comfortable and can go faster in a Telsa BUT the bottom line is both operate by batteries. So in the end I can pay less and get most of the same perks. My stuff gets less range and lesser speeds so as you know people always think they need 100 miles of range.

How come you don't speak about the Meyers Motors NMG? That seems like a nice EV if someone can deal with the lower range and they are into unusual looking vehicles. ( I think the NMG aka Sparrow is just adorable in MY opinion) And it's freeway capable. I heard they might be doing a litheom (sp?) battery for it?