Another EMF Question in Gen 3 - Please Help!!!

Keith, that can't be it because:

1. Its too simple.
2. Makes common sense.
3. Doesn't have anything to do with EMF.
4. He would have to keep the car.

 

Was your body centered with the steering wheel? The steering wheel is not centered with the center of the seat, so you could have been sitting incorrectly to support your leg.

Wayne

 

We aren't quick to write off EMF as a physiological factor. What we are quick to write off is the Prius as a significant source of EMF. You are daily exposed to much larger levels of EMF from other sources. If EMF is the source of your trouble, you would have found out long before driving a Prius.

Tom

 

No disagreement on the reality of EMF, only the relevance to the Prius.
The solution could well be medical. Have you considered amputation?
It could well prove the solution. On the other hand, once having removed the right leg, I admit there's a dilemma if the problem persists.

 

Hi PP,

The fields in the Gen II Prius have been measured to be less than that due to the Earth. Yes, go out in the middle of a field , and spin around in circles fast, and you get more EMF than in the driver's seat of a Prius.

I doubt the Gen III is any different in this regard. Measurements of RF fields comparing the Gen II to the Gen III show the Gen III is dramatically lower in RF field emissions.

Its much more probable your getting your lumbar region pushed on by the rather high lumbar support (for me at least) of the Prius driver's seat which is pinching one portion of either of the two sciatic nerves. These nerves comes out from the spine, between two vertebrai and travels down the anterior portion of each leg. Pinch one of these nervers between two vertebrae, and your toes will start to tingle. It could even be a single toe going quite tingly, while the others have no sensation. Anything part of a leg can be so effected, as that is the nerve bundle for the whole leg.

I had 3/4" stiff foam pad in my Gen II, and now have 3/8" in my Gen III, which I may be doubling this weekend. This repositions my back to be aligned with the lumbar support in the Prius driver's seat.

 

PP,

When you post this as an EMF issue you get the Engineers. Try posting something like "Prius Driver Seat-Who has problems and what are your solutions". Now you will get the seat experts.

 

What does EMF stand for? Is it Extreme Methanol Farts?

 

To the OP

I think this post here REALLY nails the reason behind some of the harsher posts that you've received. Sorry if people have been a bit rough. I think that FL_Prius_Driver has given you some sage advice, I hope you see it as such.

 

1) It is reasonable to quickly write off something when they do know the facts. The facts in this case are well known: the interior of your Prius contains less EMF than other locations where you are routinely exposed. It is unreasonable to suspect EMF to be the root of the problem if it is not present in higher than normal levels.

2) This is not at all the same as the cell phone controversy. In the case of cell phones, we have known and demonstrated exposure to EMF in close proximity. The controversy is whether this exposure has biological implications. In the case of your Prius, you do not have elevated levels of EMF. In fact the opposite is true. You receive less EMF exposure while inside of your Prius. In this case we are not debating the biological effect of EMF, but stating instead stating the fact that EMF levels are lower inside of your Prius. If you wish to contend that lower EMF levels are causing leg pain, then we can have a meaningful debate.

Tom

 

Dear Sir:

Now you've done it: Flushed me out of the woodwork. For what it's worth I, like several others floating around here, am an electronics engineer. One of my sidelines at work is EMI/EMC. And, yes, I do know Maxwell's equations.

So, let's take your statements one whack at a time.

Cellphones. Right. 900 MHz signals, a couple of watts, antenna, and right next to the head. It's just about believable that there could be some effects. So, hundreds of studies later, the best that we have is a slight correlation, in some studies, that might likely be due to the "noise" in the measurements, the measurements being the cancers that people get. And people get cancer all the time, cell phones or no cell phones. And there's whole bunches of studies that show null data. By now, if there was a glaring problem, we'd have dead people lying around in large numbers.

For a comparison, let's take the effects of microwave radiation on people, starting right back in WW II. In this cases there was clear, it's six sigma obvious, that people were getting cataracts, going sterile, getting cancers, and why wasn't a major mystery. Over the next thirty years the limits of exposure to the same kind of radiation you find in your local microwave oven got adjusted down by the various safety groups by a factor of three or four orders of magnitude. Since the early 60's those limits haven't budged - and it's not due to lack of trying by the medical and research community. It's just that there's no "there" there.

Of course, science being science, nothing is ever settled. Hence, people are still out there doing studies: The guy who finds out that 60 Hz magnetic fields incontrovertibly give people leukemia is in for a Nobel Prize - which is why they keep on looking. So far, nada.

As far as the Prius goes: Well, first of all, all the fun big electromagnetic fields are solidly inside big metal (thick) boxes, where they belong. The batteries and all that are in the back, and they run, pretty much, DC. And, in case you didn't know, DC doesn't radiate to speak of. (Static fields, yes: But to get stuff transferred into the ether, and you, changing fields, the faster changing the better, are required.)

As far as the EMF environment goes, those who have done measurements on the car (Consumers Union, a reliable bunch if there ever were one) state that the Prius is in the middle of the pack. And, indeed, there are non-hybrid cars that have bigger fields than the Prius! And, yet, nobody's running around claiming cancer from them.

Come on: Just sitting there, you're exposed to EMF from thousands upon thousands of sources. The Sun, for one, which emits from X-rays (blessedly attenuated, but not blocked, by the atmosphere) down to low-frequency radio. All those radio and TV stations; radar stations for the FAA; two-way radios of every conceivable type; and, of course, the EMF effects of the continuous, constant rain of cosmic rays from on high. Neglecting the man-made stuff, if life in general was delicately susceptible to EMF it would have likely (1) never have formed or (2) never gotten very far.

No offense, but I think you've fallen prey to what I like to call the "chemical" effect. The following is true: My father, an organic chemist, was at a cocktail party for faculty up in Boston some 30 years ago. He came back laughing: somebody in the group with which he had been chatting had spoken up and said, "Don't you know just how dangerous chemicals are?" Dad spoke up and asked the lady if she knew that, say, sugar was a chemical - and she was shocked that it was.

It's not that there's dangerous chemicals: There are. But it the idea that all of them are dangerous that gives rise to the unreasoning fear of stuff like dihydrogen monoxide in the public.

Yeah, there are EMF fields that can kill you dead. But it's not like we don't know which ones those are, and why. You'll know when you find one of those: You see those big black and red letters on power lines and such that say "DANGER! STAY OUT!"

Most of the power electronics in the Prius run in the 10 MHz range, well clear of the places that tend to take apart molecules, like the microwave regions (typically, 300 MHz and up.) Further, you can figure that the Prius people, since they were messing about with a hybrid, probably at least looked at the EMF fields, unlike the people designing "regular" cars, who didn't bother. Which is why there are regular cars with higher EMF fields. You're probably in higher danger in front of an LCD screen, not to mention one of the old glass tube monitors.

I happen to be a ham radio operator. We have our collection of stories, too: Like the guy who put up an antenna, but hadn't gotten around to powering up his shack. There were twenty complaints about interference to TV signals from the neighbors in the next week. Any change? No. Perceptions? Now you're talking.

So, you were having some pains in your legs after the infamous New York to Boston trip. My usual stunt is to get sleepy about fifty miles into the trip, pull over at some rest stop somewhere, and snooze for a half hour. But I don't blame the Prius for it - and I didn't blame the Civic I had before that, either. Sleep apnea, now, maybe.

It may very well be that the Prius's seat has exacerbated some medical condition that you've had for a while; or it's just that you and the Prius's seat, which hasn't (as far as I know) won any awards for comfort, just don't get along together.

But please, don't go blaming the EMF fields inside the car. If there was that obvious an effect, we'd have people limping all over, and we don't. Keep it up and we might start calling you "Chemical" PrincetonPrius .

Kbeck

 

Now that he mentions it, I have had leg problems since I bought my Prius. Perhaps if I had gone to an Ivy League school, I might have known to attribute it to EMF. Instead, I wore my foil cap and blamed it on the seat. The next long trip I took, I lowered the seat a little and moved it closer to the steering wheel and I guess I got into the EMF free zone and my leg problems were alleviated. Thanks for the information.

 

I think my bed must be full of EMF, every night I get in and my whole body goes numb for 7 hours or so.

 

I agrrrree with you : some of the comments were quite unrespectfull!
PrincetonPrius1, I will tell you a story : I bought a 2008 Prius and enjoyed it very much for 3 1/2 years. Prius was the best car! Almost a religion! We changed for a 2011 3d gen Prius a week ago. What a dream it was!
Rapidly, however, the dream changed to a nitemare : unexpectedly everytime I go in the car I'hve got violent headaches, blurred visions, dizzy spells, and so on.
I just searched on this forum to know if any one had feel something like this with the 3d gen Prius, I found the comments you received. So I will not ask any advice ...

I will conclude telling you, and any other in you condition, that it makes me smile when I read rubberstamped-scientists saying that SCIENTIFICALLY it cannot be true. It reminds me of the same scientists laughing at us 15 years ago and saying that global warming was scientificaly impossible!

Lets keep our mind opened to any unexpected datas.

 

No joke!! I always have to remove my Wallet while driving. The pressure causes pain in my lower right leg.

 

Anecdotal stories should not be confused with science. People find all sorts of weird correlations; our brains are wired for it. A correlation does not prove causation. This is especially true for personal stories, where human perception alters reason.

Here is a good example: As a pilot, I know a number of airline pilots that swear their vision was ruined by drinking diet soda. How do they know? Well, they all had great vision, then they started drinking diet soda, and soon needed glasses. That proves it.

It doesn't prove it. The real story is that they were all young, trim, and had perfect vision. Then they hit middle age and they weren't so trim anymore. They switched to diet soda in an effort to drop weight.

So what else happens with middle age? Presbyopia - print gets hard to read, your eyes are slow to focus. Some of us develop cataracts.

Diet soda was not the cause of bad vision. Diet soda and bad vision were both the result of middle age. There was a correlation, but the causation was age.

People have a hard time separating correlation and causation, especially when it involves personal experience.

As an electrical engineer, trust me, EMF in the Prius is not the cause of your headaches. The Prius could be the cause; perhaps solvents in the interior, or the high pitched whine of the motors and electronics. Or perhaps the Prius is not the cause, but only coincidental.

You will probably never know why you had headaches in your Prius, but we do know it was not EMF. How do we know? Because the Prius does not emit high levels of EMF.

Tom

 

I had something similar happen… I was also getting a slight discomfort pain in my right leg. What I found to be the root cause for my situation was that I had "eco" mode enabled which causes the accelerator pedal to be much stiffer / harder to push. If I disabled "eco" mode and drove in "normal" mode I notice my leg wasn't as fatigued. Something people should consider trying when reporting discomfort in your right leg.

 

Umm.. Sir:

My understanding of the scientists involved in the global warming debate were of the following classes:

1. Those who were convinced on the spot that Global Warming Was True. A tiny minority which didn't include the original authors of the idea who postulated the link.
2. Those who thought that it needed to be investigated and that there was plausibility to the hypothesis. The great majority, including the author. People started doing research, proposing grants, etc.
3. Those who thought it was garbage. A minority. Interestingly, many (if not most) of those were:
   • People who were not scientists in that field. (Read: well educated kooks.)
   • People paid to have that opinion by other people who were afraid their profit margins would be harmed by corrective action.
   • Politicians paid by the profit margin people through campaign contributions. Unfortunately, there appear to be a great number of politicians whose allegiance to the truth is tenuous at best, but whose allegiance to money is rather strong.
   • Scientists who really were convinced that there was no "there" there. A minority, but they kept Groups 1 and 2 honest.

The problem was that people in Group 1 mainly spoke with those in Group 2; People in Group 2 spoke mainly to themselves, but Group 3 had $MONEY, politicians, and a real knowledge of how to manipulate the press. They had the perfect example of the cigarette industry on how to keep scientific consensus from forming. And the real scientists in Group 3 who had valid concerns were a perfect foil for the $MONEY people. (By the by: All those scientists whose studies were done in the 70's and 80's that said there were no health effects from cigarettes. Did anything bad actually happen to those people? Or will we have to wait for St. Pete to do something about them?)

Now, you've just stated that you're having blurred vision, headaches, and dizzy spells. I believe you. And, therefore, I STRONGLY suggest that you get yourself to a physician. And I don't mean a chiropractor, either. What you're describing sounds a lot like a stroke. And, no offense, and I realize that your primary language may not be English, but your spelling and grammar are somewhat faulty. If you were getting straight A's in English class, then something may have happened.

KBeck.

 

I have ELO in my car, and after a 4 hour drive, I hear strange things.

 

KBeck, jumping to a conclusion that Shizen is having TIA symptoms even though he relates the problem to sitting in the Prius makes no sense at all.

That is my opinion as an internist. It is also a bit of common sense, which seems to be lacking in this EMF discussion, although your post was excellent and Qbee as always introduces some lucidity.