Another Battery Degradation Thread

John
Thanks so much for the new video, your descriptions and advice.
I just ordered two mini bluetooth adapters and was debating bluetooth or wifi adapter, mostly to look at lockdown settings and transfer speed comparisons.
The pack heat issues especially when charging, by looking only at the stock gauges, looks to me like the pack likes the car hot when charging.
Hot for me anyway, around 90 F ambient outside temp in the sun, making it uncomfortable for me inside the car while the pack fans run at low speed circulating that hot air through the charging pack.
I think high rate ( 1.9kw / 240V ) of charge when plugged in or heavy regen when driving in hot weather will probably show temp spikes in the pack too, like markabele posted - Another Battery Degradation Thread | Page 9 | PriusChat - . I've watched the charging screens ( again the stock screens ) at several diff temps using the a/c while plugged in and charging to make it more bearable for me inside the car..
I wonder if we will be able to graph charging while plugged in using torque.

I didn't realize when I commented - in another thread? regarding Winter - 2 F Jan 24 no heater,
that you made those winter driving videos too.
After watching them more closely I'm blown away by the performance you displayed with winter driving techniques using mostly all ev.

What else can I say other than thanks for the heads up concerning winter driving techniques.
And Jeffs charts I just found too - Another Battery Degradation Thread | Page 6 | PriusChat -
I'll be reading the rest of this thread more closely now.

 

It's nice to have that level of detail available now.

There was quite an effort in the past to undermine Prius PHV, claiming it was necessary to have a liquid cooling system for the battery-pack. Yet, those making those statements never actually provided any data. The hope was that you'd assume they had supporting evidence. In reality, they were just passing along vague & outdated bits of information.

I found that rather frustrating. They were clearly trying to convey a message of superiority based on people's lack of background. It sounds likely, so it must be. But what tipped me off early on was that those same individuals would also claim Prius PHV could not climb hills using only EV. This video not only shares detail about battery-pack temperature, it also shows they were intentionally trying to mislead. After all, how many times must owners point out what they say isn't true before you have have to resort to actually showing it?

Thankfully, owners of other plug-in vehicles have joined in to help. That's a very positive sign that the market is changing. We're past that initial rollout where there was something to prove. Now, it's a matter getting the attention of ordinary consumers, sharing our stories of day to day experiences.

 

If I owned a Volt or other EV, I'd drive like a rocket, because the electricity is so cheap.

 

Maybe you are fortunate to live in an area with cheap electricity. Then there are those of us who pay up to $0.51/kwh, depending on our usage tier.

 

ugh, what a mentality.

 

Yup. Looking at Southern California Edison's rate structure it's hard to see how their TOU rate stucture can actually benefit anyone but a Tesla owner:
Electric Vehicle Rates | Electric Vehicles | Your Home | Home - SCE

 

And the majority of the ones that do don't care about their fuel economy.

 

but if you can install solar PV cheap enough you can get your cost per kwh down below $0.10. Yeah the math is fuzzy depending on how many years you include for expected life of the equipment but generally accepted math has solar PV well below your worst case $0.51/kwh.

I live in an area with electric rates on a flat rate around $0.10/kwh and I'm still considering getting solar PV in the near future to save money on electricity costs.

 

I put in a 8.8kw system at my house and I don't pay to charge my plug ins or any other device. Well worth it.

 

nice.

 

You might have to hurry up, I think the generous subsidies are expiring

 

Yeah well I'm tired of driving 45 miles/hour, due to $4/gallon gasoline, and trying to conserve every ounce. It would be nice to have an EV or Volt that costs 1/3rd as much per mile driven (even if driven 80).

That's still half as much per mile (versus gasoline car). You'd still be saving money.

 

Back to the OP topic about battery degradation:
I now have a tad under 65K miles on my 2012 PIP bought in June of 2012, that is 65K in 14.5 months of service.
Have not noticed any battery degradation on my PIP. If I keep it 70MPH or below on my daily 99.6 mile round trip from southern Riverside County to my job in North San Diego County, I can still get 72 MPG for the round trip. (I am able to recharge at work since I convinced the company to put in a charging station). They put in (3) 110V drops in October 2012 and since then I have 2 neighbors using it: A leased Leaf, and a leased Ford Fusion all battery model.
However, the mileage drops significantly on the order of 7% or 8% in the colder months from about October to March on both the battery and Hybrid power. Still very happy with the PIP though, Zero Problems so far...

 

excellent!

 

I was looking at this earlier today. In my state there rebate from the local utility is a flat $1000 and you can apply to be on the buyback program. They buyback program buys your surplus electricity at above retail rates for the next 10 years or so guaranteed but the amount they pay you drops by 3 cents per kwh each year (based on whey you sign up) and there are limited sign ups. I'll have to be ready to make a decision around dec 30th so I can apply Jan 1st or wait another year. And of course the more I consume the less left over power there will be for them to buyback so that's only a big deal if I want to oversize my system or push for the edge of the 10KW limit for home users.

I'm thinking of buying a used Leaf and looking ahead to a Tesla someday so jumping in next year might lock in a deal that will work with the cars I'll have 5 or 10 years from now.

Even then I haven't decided if I'll do it. I have to keep the total cost of install after federal rebates below $3/kw to make the payoff less than 25 years ignoring the buyback program. I'm not sure what size system I can afford to do yet.

 

I'd like to see your finance calculation since it is different than what I calculate.

I presume that loan rates = ~ utility inflation
If annual production in kWh per watt installed is P
and retail cost per kWh is C dollars

Then per installed cost per watt W dollars,
breakeven occurs at
W/(C*P) years

Example
W = 3
P = 1.6
C = 0.1
Break-even = 3/0.16 = 18.75 years

 

By the way Dhanson,
If you can consider a ground mount setup, this package can end up being really inexpensive if you add in some DIY

Menards
A couple times a year the store offers 11% off coupons a future purchase.
I can also show you how to take off another 10 - 20% discount if you have excellent credit. PM for details