Angry Ford dealer in SC calls imports "rice ready...not road ready"

Malorn,

You are correct that government intervention does add a bias to the Free Market System. That bias does not necessarily improve things for them from a long term perspective. In spite of all their (Korea & Japan) government intervention, the U.S. still has on average, a higher standard of living than either of those countries. Yes, we do need to make some changes here in the U.S. (like health care), but the free enterprise system still works well.

Keith

 

This situation is frustrating. I want the vehicle I drive to be American made and the best quality, highest possible mpg I can get. With three American automakers, this should be possible. Unfortunately, it seems like the complete opposite situation is occuring. If I'm into big trucks/SUVs then I have choices. I'm not into big trucks/SUVs and the high quality, high mpg offerings from the US makers are pretty anemic. The US automaker mindset is Small Car = Cut corners to beyond the extreme.

When the Volt came out, I thought "Wow", this is unexpected. Unfortunately, the more I followed, the clearer it became the the Volt started life more as a PR stunt than an all out effort to set a new standard in transportation. When will GM wake up to the large market of smart buyers who will pay the extra money for a high quality Electric Vehicle? Tesla is aware of this and cannot make them fast enough.

 

Not fricken again. That is untrue. It has been posted here a thousand times.

Ford developed the technology on its own. There are patent issues and Ford and Toyota signed a CROSS-PATENT agreement together to get over them.

By the patents there are some in common but far more differences (by several times).

 

Tell that Ford guy to cell phone his rant to those two Alabama senators, Shelby and Sessions, who are against keeping American car companies alive. You know, those two "patriotic" conservatives whose state has four foreign car plants subsidized by Alabama. Including one or two Toyota plants. I'm not against foreign car companies generating American jobs and producing quality products, but these two guys are hypocrites. Give 'em some grief, Ford.

 

Keith,

I respectfully disagree with you. I think for the last 25 years the US has been living on credit earned when the US was running trade surpluses with the rest of the world. I don't think a true free market would ever exist unless the world was devoid of tariffs, import barriers, subsidies, taxes etc. On paper the free enterprise system should work very well, but in reality it is only as good as the subsidies that are in place. I think after 35 years our trade problems could be viewed as systemic on both the import and export sides of the equation. It seems incredible to me that we are currently "giving away" the value of our entire economy at the rate of about once every 10 years.

 

I dont beleive my wife and the other 7000+people that work in the toyota plant in Georgetown KY send money to Japan.We have three rice ready cars and love them all.I enjoy having oil put in my car and thats all i have had to do to them.Oh I did put air in the tires a couple times.
Im an old fart and when i take my 2009 Camry Hybrid on the road it feels like im in my easy chair.couldnt ask for a better ride.
I drove Town cars most of my life and when i got my first toyota i couldnt beleive the ride.I will never go back to another brand and i beleive most of you feel the same.
I seen on cnn the other day that toyota has more people buy back to toyota than other brands by a larger %.Im sure one of you can post the results of that survey.I do well to remember who i am and what the heck i went into the other room to get.

 

I lived through multiple distinct oil hits:

1. 1973 - First oil price jump
2. 1979 - Opec price nibbled up while Carter worked alternate fuel
3. 1982 - price crash to kill Carter's alternate fuel programs
4. 2000 - California 'energy crisis' by Enron to elect GW Bush
5. 2005 - Katrina shuts down Gulf of Mexico oil production
6. 2008 - Commodity broker 'energy crisis'

I remember 1973 because in 1972 I had a VW MicroBus and drove cross country on a Lance Corporal's pay. I returned to the USA in 1973 with a Corporal's pay, rebuilt the engine and drove to HQ Marine Corps. I remember riding my bicycle past lines of cars waiting for gas ... and laughing.

The California Air Resourced Board 'blinked' in the 1990s and that gave GM the go ahead to crush the EV1. When GW Bush came into office, he killed the Partnership for a New Generation of Vehicles including the GM Precept:

Ford Prodigy:

Chyrsler ESX-3:


High petroleum prices have been telegraphed four decades and the development of the Prius-killers was bought and paid for by Bill Clinton under Al Gore's program. Instead, GW Bush, the CARB and the not so "Big 3" ate their seed corn:

GM crushed EV1s.

These decisions were supported by those who voted for the Republican House in 1994, GW Bush over Al Gore in 2000 and GW Bush in 2004. The Republicans weren't kicked out of the House and Senate until 2006. In 2008, we have started back but we've lost a decade due to Republican nonsense in Congress and this venal White House.

Right now we're in for a "fecal sandwich" and everyone gets to take a bite. We worked hard to screw it up and the success came through in November, almost. The Republicans can still hold up legislation in the Senate and I hope they do! Once 2010 comes around, we take back the Senate and can work ourselves out of this Republican mess.

Bob Wilson

 

Now you know why the country is in the proverbial "shi**er". Just look in the mirror. Toyota exports $3 billion a month and imports about 100,000 units. I realize your wife helps assemble Toyotas in Kentucky but her job eliminated 4 other auto jobs in other locales in the US. I don't hold it against you or your wife, but those are the facts. I am sorry to tell you, but the profits your wife and the other 7000+ employees generate do go back to Japan.

 

Ford and GM are as far as I am concerned bankrupt. Without a bailout GM is gone in a month, F in a year unless there is a huge recovery. They cannot change course fast enough.

Giving them $ under the current plan is a waste. To keep F and GM going and to be fair <the shareholders won't think this!> the stocks should be worthless. I don't want to bail out the shareholders with my money. That just makes no sense.

The bondholders should be the same, they are screwed.
The UAW needs big pay cut and should be issued NEW shares in the company. Enough of this UAW vs management, we need them in the same boat fighting for the company.

The measure of success should be the small to medium sized car. They should be able to build a good small car for a PROFIT. Its possible, good engineering and fair priced labor can do it. Toyota and Honda have proven that.

 

They don't have the fixed costs to deal with, pensions and health care. Those are the reason GM and Ford can't produce small cars profitably. Notice that Toyota and Honda small cars are largely imported.

 

That is why I didn't say 'if they only built a car that got 46mpg or better EVERYONE would test drive it'. I was very specifically referring to me.

This is definitely not the sole reason detroit is in trouble. But it is the reason they don't have my business. And while it is not the reason everyone who doesn't own a Ford didn't buy one, I doubt I am the only person that is a factor for.
I also mention this a response to Malorn indicating that 3.3 Billion is returning to Japan due to Prius sales. Basically indicating if a domestic would build something as efficient I may be driving it instead. They didn't, so I didn't buy from them. That simple.

 

I agree this is ONE of the reasons they aren't competitive (and it is a big one). However, giving them a bail out won't eliminate those fix costs. They need to restructure under chapter 11 in order to modify contracts they have with the UAW, dealers, etc.

 

As I understand the current plan being worked on, the government (i.e. taxpayers) would have the highest/first priority.
So really, this is not a bailout of the shareholders (unless they sell before bankruptcy is declared in a few months), and the bond holders, who usually have one of the highest positions of claims against the company, would take second seat the the taxpayers.

If the bailout occurs, I suspect the bond holders will become even more skittish than they are now.

 

Despite the ridiculous rantings of this dealer, Ford will likely be not only a survivor, but likely thrive when the economy recovers.

The reason is simple: Ford is moving forward with its plans to dramatically improve the fuel efficiency of their model range. Consider what is coming in a few years:

1) The new Fiesta will offer a 119 bhp 1.6-liter engine with the new Powershift six-speed dual-clutch transmission, which means good performance and possibly highway fuel economy at least 40 mpg (based on EPA 2008 test). Based on reports from Europe of the hatchbacks powered by this engine, the new Fiesta will definitely be a lot of fun to drive.

2) The third-generation Focus coming fall 2010 should also be quite good, especially since they will use the same improved engines from the redesigned Mazda3 that just came out but with the Powershift gearbox. Highway fuel economy in the 35 mpg range (EPA 2008 test) is definitely within reach.

3) The new mid-model change Fusion/Milan are definitely winners, especially the hybrid version and the new version with the 2.5-liter 170 bhp engine and six-speed automatic for improved acceleration and better highway fuel economy.

 

Flipping through my 2008 Springtime Consumer Reports Best & Worst of SUV's, Wagons, trucks ... magazine, lemme see ... what US automaker has a 5 door, hatchback vehicle ...

Ohh a Buick Enclave ... wait. Reliability history - No data new model .. ewwww, next

Cadillac Escalade, Chevy Avalanche ... 12/18 MPG ... next !!

Chevrolet Aveo .... ooooh how nice (barf) .. oooh lots of black circles

Chevy Equinox ... kinda pricey, lots of black circles

Chevy HHR ... wow, been out since 2006, long time nevermind, styled after a 1949 Suburban what I heard .... Foogly

Chrysler PT Cruiser .. whew lots of black circles 18/24 mpg pooh

Dodge Caliber ... woww!! long history. been out since 2007!!

Dodge Magnum ... MuchWorseThanAverage predicted reliability ... figures

Ford Edge, Ford Escape ... 17/22/24 mpg ahhh

Ford Flex ... what the?

ah screw it, give up trying to find an attractive US make.

So, Mr. Cowboy South Carolinan, A'm Suposeda buy a hwat naw??

Oh brother ...

Wait! A Pontiac Vibe, not bad. But, fooled ya Mr. Cawboy, it's actually a rebadged Toyota, built under the TPS at NUMMI, Fremont, CA, employs 4,300 UA dubs.

 

cycledrum, I think you hit the nail on the head there...

I used to own a Chrysler Neon.. for about a month... what a POS!

B'Bye GM and Chrysler... looks like they'll go the same way as the previous dinosaurs 65 million years ago!

 

Lets just pretend for a little while I'm American.
I have a family of 3, my son is 16 and will soon be driving himself around leaving just me and the wife.
My wife has a job as I do and she drives herself to work in her own car. Sometimes we go on holidays in the car, all 3 of us touring in my current car, a (for argument's sake) Toyota Corolla which I am happy with but I want to replace it as it is getting a bit old.

I head into the local GM dealership (or Ford) and explain to the sales person I want to replace my "rice ready" car with a "road worthy" car made in the good old US of A by the good ole' boys. I want a car no bigger than my Corolla because my family is getting smaller not bigger (like most baby boomers) as far as my car goes and I would hate to send my hard earned US bucks to Iraq for no good reason.
What have you got to offer me to compete with a new Corolla?

Your ball Malorn.

 

You would probably get an Aveo, but it doesn't matter anyway because the Aveo is a crap car.

*Anecdotal Evidence alert* - I rented an Aveo last year. Brand new, less than 1,000 miles on the clock. No abnormal driving habits with it, and within the first week it failed to start. The battery and everything else was fine, it just didn't want to start. It would happen maybe 1 out of every three attempted starts, but thats more than I have had with any car ever.

On top of that, it had no power-anything, and the A/C vents were those annoying ball-type ones that don't seem to ever close completely.

 

Where is the Aveo made again? South Korea?

Sorry I want as American as apple pie made metal around me or I'm just sending my hard earned US dollars to them thar (sorry too offensive to write on an open forum) people in Asia.

Any more takers?

 

i like the chevy aveo