All New 5G 2023 Prius Reveal - Livestream @ 11/15 11:30 PM EST

Can one just order it, wait, and get it at MSRP?
Why do people in this country pay mark ups to buy a car? Is mark up a must? Is it not possible to order the vehicle you want, they way you want it, wait like the rest of the planet does, and pay sticker price?

 

The problem is that you have to go through a dealer to buy the car (by law in most states, with a few states having exceptions for EV-only manufacturers that never had dealers, basically legalizing-after-the-fact Tesla's decision to have corporate stores instead), and some dealers insist on markups. (And some dealers won't even let you order.)

 

Well kind of. But you don't really "order" your car, per say. You get your name added to a list. Then, when your name comes up, the dealer will call you and say, "we have this car, in this trim level, with these options .... Do you want it, or not" ? In other words, you take what they get, or you don't get one at all. Their are actually a few places in California that have zero markups, but the wait time can be 12 months or longer, and then you start getting the calls like I explained, to choose a car that is almost certainly not the exact vcar you would have wanted. I needed a car right away, and ended up paying a $3700 markup for it. But ended up with nearly the exact car I wanted. Took me 6 hours to find it, buy it, and get it back home.

 

Then in the Southeast and Gulf Coast regions, there is the distributor dictating what the dealers can get. Many Prime buyers there opted to go out of state to purchase, as the distributors took a disliking to plug ins.

The laws are there because the manufacturers started opening up their own stores and undercutting their independent dealers. Maybe it was really a problem then, but dealers have been using it to stifle competition since.

 

That is true...to a point. I have always went through a buying service of some sort...Truecar when they were actually decent, and Costco. Both have given me very reasonable pricing, without having to deal with the dealer BS...other than on pickup day.

 

I just watched a review. Roof is 2 inches lower and seating position is 1 inch lower. These changes rule out any chance for me trading my 2017 Prius Prime for the new generation.
Don't know what Toyota is thinking. Nobody is buying small sedans anymore.

 

Because you like being postured like an old lady?

 

Well I'm not an old lady, but am becoming an old man now. Lower isn't making it any easier to get in, but I'll have to revisit this when it's time to get a new car. My current car has the HOV till 2025, that's part of the decision making process, every time my boss has me move his car to charge for him, it's a pain to get in an out for me.

 

Levels with sunroof tend to reduce headroom even more.

 

irony is, less & less new car buyers are younger ones. So one would think that what with younger opting to do ride share services rather than the expense of a new car & insurance - it may be more economical for some, to not buy (especially) a new car. That leaves Toyota & others catering to a smaller market. Perhaps that's why folks are buying more & more SUV type cars? Because no one, especially those that have to scrunch down - then hike their self up - they want to have issues w/ egress & ingress? Not just old ... but fat folks, out of shape folks, as well as the infirmed. Not cool.
.

 

To my knowledge, in all EU countries, all new vehicles are BTO and there are very rare cases when one buys something "off the lot". Most dealers have no lots to talk of. And what they have "ready to deliver" is cars they used for display and that they actually want to get rid of (e.g., older models or new models with weird option combinations on them). Usually those are sold at a discount.
Dealers tend to have 4-8 cars in the showroom and a couple to test drive and that's it. You order your car BTO and wait X months for delivery (of 3 cars I ordered while living in Europe, I have waited an average of 2.5 months to get them delivered), and pay MSRP. Period.

The only prices not linked to MSRP are, of course, used cars, and cars bought through "third-party" dealers, also called, "parallel importers". Essentially dealers that are not a brand name dealer. There the price is not fixed. But I never heard anybody saying they paid 5k extra to get a car in those dealers either.

You sometimes even get a discount if you pay "cash" for a BTO car. And by cash, I mean an IBAN transfer (that is, the equivalent of a USA ACH fee-free electronic transfer between bank accounts). There are no checks involved or paper money. Actually paper money transfers above a couple of thousand euros or even less (I don't know what the limit is today) are not allowed by law (to avoid illegal activities, e.g., money-laundering). And checks are considered unsecure and I don't think are used at all anymore. I haven't seen a check in 30 years, except when I moved here to the USA in 2021. And even here, we manage pretty well with 99% of transactions done electronically in one way or another.

Based on what you describe, and it sounds dire, it seems to me that here the dealers control the market and tell you what to buy and when, and you end up paying more instead of less, as "competition and free market" instead should foster.

Interestingly, the BMW dealer here in Denver where we got the i4 told us they don't have stock anymore and never will and will only sell at MSRP on BTOs. How they make money with BMW selling their cars I don't know. Maybe they are all employees of BMW USA or they have another agreement to compensate them on the cars they sell. To our knowledge the sales employees are salaried and don't get any bonuses on how many cars they sell. Which actually makes the experience quite nicer than somebody trying to sell sh1t you don't want.

It seems the best is to not NEED a car "right now", and buy something that has been on the market for a while and not just released. Otherwise said, if I ever going to upgrade my 2021 Prime to a 2023 Gen5 Prime, I will wait until end of next year when hopefully it boils over. And try to find a dealer (of the many I have around here in Denver metro) that will honor a BTO order. I will wait, I have waited all my life to get a new car. And I personally don't see the need to get it "right now" for such an important purchase.

 

I'm on my forth Prius a '21 Prime. I could see getting the Gen5 Prime. I have zero interest in getting a Tesla. To me a Tesla has as much sole as a piece of Tupperware, add in the cost and no thank you.

I originally got a '06 Prius just to get car pool stickers here is SoCal. I've grown to actually like driving a Prius, it just works for me. Since I retired last year the car pools stickers are no longer as important. I'm a car guy that has classic ICE cars to drive for "fun". The Prius gives me a nice way to do the day to day errands cheaply so when I drive a "fun" car it doesn't hurt as much

I've driven over 500k miles on all my Prius. The only "repair" that I can remember were the hatch struts on my 06. No brakes no nothing in all those miles, just normal fluid changes and tires. That is a pretty darn good record.

I'm not interested in all the new features that are coming, I know how to park a darn car. It will be nice to get a bit more EV range. I'm looking forward to the reviews once someone gets to test the 220hp. Yes I've learned to live with less power and drive accordingly but having the extra power is certainly appealing. I like the looks but I'm concerned about giving up the headroom. Also interested in Android Auto as what Toyota give you in the '21 is just passable.

It will be interesting to see what models have what and at what price. I don't need to trade in my '21, so any dealer markup will probably kill any desire to get a Gen5.

Now let's get some actually driving reviews and pricing !!

 

Prior to this whole chip shortage, there was no lineup of people waiting to buy a Prius. If you are willing to drive within 100 miles of your residence, the saving really is significant. For us, we never pay at or above MSRP .... ever for the past 20 years. My 2016 Prius was 25.5 otd and the 2017 Prime was 20.5 otd (inclusive of all rebates/tax incentives). Both of them, stickers before tax were 27k+

Waiting is easier said than done for some of us with kids at driving age. I have 2 kids that will be going to college in half a year and they will get my old cars. I am in need of another Prime but the shopping in the last 8 months have been pretty insulting to consumer imo

 

The GR Corolla forum has a user-contributed list of dealers selling at MSRP. Some of those dealers apparently indicated they would sell any Toyota at or slightly below MSRP.
List of MSRP Only Dealerships | Toyota GR Corolla Forum - Release Date, Specs, Pricing Discussion

I think it would be helpful for us to compile one for the Prius, preferably in a sticky.

Another resource is markups.org.

 

@MikeDee

We have a 2012 Hyundai Sonata Limited and a 2013 Hyundai Elantra GT, both with panoramic sunroofs ( i.e. - the entire top of the car is glass ). With the sunshade open, it substantially opens up the interior and results in quite a bit of added headroom. Unfortunately, Toyota's implementation looks rather poor when compared to our Hyundais.

 

I got on the list for a Prius at Longo Toyota in April 2022. Longo is the biggest Toyota dealer in the world and they sell at MSRP. I was 143 on the list to start. 7 months later I am around 80. You don’t get to order your car, you specify what model and colors you would accept and they’ll call when they get a match allocated and you’re at the top of the list. They initially told me they thought it would be around six months. Since I now want a 2023, I figure it will be a few more months minimum.

 

But if "You don’t get to order your car, you specify what model and colors you would accept and they’ll call when they get a match allocated and you’re at the top of the list." then what does it mean? that they can add all sorts of at-dealer options you don't care about (e.g., mud guards, plastic covers of handles and so on, window tinting) and you have to get it with all the extra stuff you might not want, even if the color and trim match? and pay extra xxx$ to get it or wait more?

 

No add ons. You pay MSRP from factory plus tax, license and a doc fee. It is on their website.

 

you just don't get to order the exact car you want.