AGM battery for Gen 4/Gen 5 Prius/Prius Prime and observations on the 12-V charging system

Discussion in 'Gen 5 Prius Main Forum' started by Gokhan, Sep 20, 2024.

  1. Paul Gregory

    Paul Gregory Active Member

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    Some people make up safety concerns just to clobber someone with it.
    I call it "safety trolling."
     
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  2. Paul Gregory

    Paul Gregory Active Member

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    My tentative conclusion for the variable parasitic drain had to do with the communication module downloading updates to my car's system. I measured it at up to 330 mA at times. It caused me many dead batteries before I applied my remedies.

    My Gen 3 Prius had a steady parasitic drain of 50 mA. I could count on about 10 days parked before the battery was too low to start.
     
  3. soft_r

    soft_r Member

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    Pull the fuse for the DCM and observe any changes. That's the only communication module (that I know of) that receives power while the car is off.

    Fuse is located in the driver foot well fuse box. I replaced the fuse for mine with a switch that has a mini fuse connector at the end (with each side of the switch's wires fused appropriately). This switch integrates into an empty button slot on the dash and looks oem. I turn it on when I need cabin microphone. Otherwise it stays off.
     

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  4. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    Parasitic drain is of course variable, which is normal. There is nothing wrong with that. You will see it if you have a battery monitor. It can be as high as several amps when the EVAP system is being tested everyday. Then there are other things that happen when the car is parked. Also, if you walk by with the key fob, there will be a very high parasitic drain.

    You need to be concerned with the average parasitic drain, not these spikes. In my Gen 4 PHEV, it is about 45 mA.

    I doubt in Paul’s case there was a problem with the communication module. If the car already had a history of not being driven (such as before purchased), it is quite normal to see battery problems especially if you don’t drive for at least an hour a day and not use a battery maintainer.

    Also, there is a long section of troubleshooting all these things in the Gen 5 repair manual. The two obvious owner-caused issues are not driving the car for at least one hour every few days and keeping the key fob too close to the car.
     
  5. Paul Gregory

    Paul Gregory Active Member

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    I gave up trying to predict when my battery went low. It was such a nuisance that I installed the battery maintainer, and I never had that problem again.

    I had a Bluetooth OBD, but it drained my battery, so I deign to use one again.
     
  6. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    I don't know which one you used, but BM2 draws a small current of about 2 mA.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Paul Gregory

    Paul Gregory Active Member

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    I kept forgetting to unplug it when I parked, so I just quit using it.
     
  8. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    I am not sure what you used. The entire point of BM2 is that it stays permanently hooked up to the 12-V battery so that you record the voltage to 0.01 V every two minutes.
     
  9. Paul Gregory

    Paul Gregory Active Member

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    I don't see how a battery monitor could tell me more than my clamp ammeter.
     
  10. Mr.Vanvandenburg

    Mr.Vanvandenburg Senior Member

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    You need to get one to find out. The ones I have don't measure amps, but I haven’t had the need to go hall or shunt yet to get the amps reading. I may get this kind so don’t have to use a phone while driving. Just save the phone for calls while driving or looking at texts while driving.


    [​IMG]
    ANCEL BM200 PRO+ 12V Battery Monitor, 433MHZ Wireless Transmission Battery Monitor with Cranking & Charging Test, Voltage & Temperature Monitoring,...
     
  11. Paul Gregory

    Paul Gregory Active Member

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    I don't think I'll bother. I haven't had a dead battery in over 9 months.
     
  12. yaun

    yaun Member

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    Thanks to Gokhan for the original post. My original battery died and I chose the same setup (except for the charger/tender for which I already had the CTEK MXS 5).

    My OEM battery had problems starting right away with the first winter in 2022. I typically only drive the car 1-2 times a week. Now after 3.5 years it's completely dead.

    Even with the new battery, I see that my voltage drops quite quickly when the car is not driven and not connected to the charger (12.91 to 12.80 in 12 hours). Anyone lese seeing this? I suspect that my Allstate Milewise device causes a significant parasitic drain.
     
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  13. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    To estimate the parasitic drain, you need to look at the resting voltage (after about 16 hours). A large part of the initial drop is just the surface charge being absorbed. That doesn’t correspond to a SOC drop. In my case, the SOC drop due to parasitic drain (and a small self-discharge) is about 2.3% a day.
     
  14. BiomedO1

    BiomedO1 Senior Member

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    Are you unplugging the traction pack once it's fully charged and/or keeping your fob in a Faraday bag when not in use?
    I'm still on my OEM battery, but I don't get the frigid temperature swings that you get.
     
  15. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    As for the key fob, you don’t need to keep it in a Faraday bag. It only drains the battery if it is within about ten feet of the doors. You can verify that with a battery monitor.
     
  16. Paul Gregory

    Paul Gregory Active Member

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    Don't make the mistake I made with my Gen 3. The battery ran down from parasitic drain, and then it froze. It wouldn't take a charge after driving the car for several hours. I replaced the AGM battery at great cost, and experienced the same thing with the new one, Turns out, the remedy was to bring the battery into the house and charge it fully.
     
  17. ngc4565

    ngc4565 Member

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    Gosh - I wish that I had seen this tread a week ago. I replaced the factory battery in our 2017 Prius V on 18 January as we were just entering a sub-zero cold spell. The factory battery didn't owe me after 7-1/2 years of service. I did replace it with an AGM battery based upon my understanding of the technology and an impressive experience with another AGM battery.

    The part that I learned here has to do with the initial charge. Suspecting that the battery could use a charge I hooked up a 4 Amp smart charger after installing it. I noticed that after 4 hours the charger wasn't reporting a full charge but i had to disconnect the charger and go about my business.

    So the question is this: should I reconnect the smart charger and let it run to completion? This battery came with a 4-year full replacement warranty. The other AGM battery I have owned went eight years and showed no sings of distress when that car left the stable.
     
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  18. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    Yes, definitely charge it to completion of the charging profile. With Noco Genius, this takes more than 40 hours because the last step in the charging profile is very slow.

    That said, I recharged mine with Noco Genius (5 A) for about 36 hours the other day. Recharging was still not completed when I had to disconnect it to charge the traction battery and then drive to the grocery store. The BMS has recalibrated after the full recharge and has been behaving a lot more nicely to the AGM battery. I will report my detailed findings tomorrow.
     
  19. Paul Gregory

    Paul Gregory Active Member

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    I bought a NOCO Genius 2 which is fully adequate, even though if I'd been paying attention, I'd have got a 5.
     
  20. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    After four months, I went ahead and hooked up the Noco Genius (5 A) to recharge the AGM battery, as the open-circuit voltage was dipping to as little as 12.56 V (74% SOC) at times after a couple of days of rest.

    I had to drive the car after 36 hours before the full charging profile completed (about 48 hours). Here is how the Noco Genius charging profile looks like—started around 2 AM on January 25 and unplugged around 2 PM on January 26 before the full charging profile completed.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    You can see the slow last phase, where the voltage gradually rises—some sort of small-constant-current charging.

    On the first day, the resting voltage was 13.03 V, and on the second day, it was 12.96 V—both 0.02 V less than when I completed the entire charging profile four months ago. The temperatures are a lot cooler now though.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Surprisingly, on the first day, when I drove the car, the BMS tried to charge the battery very aggressively for about half hour and then kept it at a float voltage of 13.4 V, which is much higher than the usual float voltage of about 12.91 V. The BMS seems to automatically recalibrate for the type and voltage–current characteristics of the battery. The BMS got less aggressive after two days, doing the usual float at about 12.91 V.

    Manually recharging the battery every few months seems to be a good idea and probably helps extend its longevity. AGM batteries probably handle partial charging states better than flooded-cell batteries though. My OEM flooded-cell battery lasted well with the car being driven regularly. It only fully discharged after repeated long vacations with no battery maintainer hooked up. It is probably still in halfway-decent condition after I recharged it with the Noco Genius, but I went ahead and got the economical and good-quality Uplus EN LN1/DIN H4/BCI 140R AGM battery from Amazon and installed it four months ago in September.
     
    #240 Gokhan, Jan 29, 2025 at 1:25 PM
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2025 at 2:46 PM