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After Service Issue

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by hobba, Jun 19, 2008.

  1. hobba

    hobba New Member

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    Yes they did check the fuel consumption again and ran a complete diagnostic on the electronic system. No codes were generated. It did seem that the system reset did clear the problem on initial startup, but the problem quickly returned. I haven't had a chance to try Mobil gas yet. My last tank was Shell and I still experienced the same loss of mileage. I'm considering adding a mileage additive at the next fill up to see if it counteracts the ethanol mileage loss. As always, I'm open to any ideas. I still don't understand why this happened now after two and a half years without a problem.
     
  2. Bob64

    Bob64 Sapphire of the Blue Sky

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    Do you have a scangauge? I'd "Check" the prius computer's math with it if you have one...

    Your mileage will decrease when you rotate your tires. What type of oil did they put in? Perhaps try changing it yourself and use a synthetic oil?

    I'd also check your alignment, if it hasn't been done already... One last thing: What kind of trips are you doing on the prius? Has your commute changed?

    Short trips WILL kill your mileage.
     
  3. hobba

    hobba New Member

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    No, I don't have a scan guage, but am considering getting one. I do maually check my mileage against the MFD and the math is very close. Tires are rotated every 5k and have never resulted in this dramatic a loss in MPG. The car is dealer serviced and oil is consistent from fill to fill. Front end was aligned on the same date when the problem first occurred. And my trips haven''t changed one bit.

    After reading all the posts recently about the effect of ethanol and the introduce of it in gas in FL., I tend to agree with Toyota that the problem is caused by the gas blend.

    Just for grins, I put a bottle of octane boost in the car today when I filled up. Curious to see if it make a difference or not. I suspect not, but for 2 bucks, what did I have to loose?
     
  4. richard schumacher

    richard schumacher shortbus driver

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    Nobody seems to like the simple theory that the dealer is letting the car run and burn up some gas while it's sitting in the shop, so how about this: the 12V battery is beginning to fail, and the car is using more energy (that is, burning more gas) trying to keep it charged. Have the dealer do a 12V battery load test.
     
  5. hobba

    hobba New Member

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    Even if the dealer is letting it run, the problem began on 5/31 and has persisted until the present time. Also, this is the only dealer who has ever serviced the car, so I would expect the same result time after time over the past two and a half years.

    The battery load test is a good idea. I will get it checked.
     
  6. dogfriend

    dogfriend Human - Animal Hybrid

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    Any chance they screwed up the alignment?
     
  7. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    I suggest that you:
    • raise up the rear axle, release the parking brake, and spin each rear wheel with your hands to see whether the parking brake is dragging.
    • check your wheel alignment again, find a good specialist for this job.
    • look at the bottom of your air filter, make sure it is clean, and also make sure that there is no obstruction in the hose that provides outside air to the air filter assembly.
    • measure the voltage on your 12V battery after the car has been IG-OFF for an hour or more. If 12.6V or more, the battery is fully charged. If much less than that, think about buying a new battery, which also will get you ready for winter season.
     
  8. hobba

    hobba New Member

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    Actually, there was a problem with the alignment on 5/31. Shortly after the alignment, one of the weights came off a wheel and I could feel it in the steering. I took it back, they rotated the tires, rebalanced and rechecked the alignment. Everything has been fine since. I will check for a a dragging parking brake, and of course, the battery. I have previously checked the air filter and supply. All is well there. Thanks to all for the input. I'm still angry about all this......
     
  9. hobba

    hobba New Member

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    UPDATE: True to their word, Toyota Corporate called me back after one month regarding the loss of mileage problem. I was surprised but very pleased. Unfortunately, they still do not have an answer to the problem and are experiencing it across their entire car line. I did ask the tech about the parking brake and the battery load test and they indicated neither would have this effect on the car. I still plan to test both theories and thank those who mentioned them. I want to report that the additional of a bottle of octane boost did not help to increase MPG. I didn't think it would, but it was worth a 2 dollar try. Toyota will keep the work order open for another month, so I expect to hear back from them again. The only other thing I haven't tried is Mobil gas, which some owners have told Toyota, has improved the MPG problem. As always, thanks for any and all ideas.
     
  10. 9G-man

    9G-man Senior Member

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    How was that a problem with your alignment?

    It's not, that's a wheel balance issue.
     
  11. hobba

    hobba New Member

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    Update: I recently was made aware the BP gas stations in FL do not put ethanol in their blends. Ethanol was pointed out to me by Toyota as the potential cause of my 10 mpg loss of mileage. With Ike coming to visit FL in a few days, I fueled up with BP gas. While I only took on 5 gallons, I intend to buy BP gas for the next few tanks to see if ethanol is the cause of the problem. I'll report back to POG with the results.
     
  12. lkv

    lkv New Member

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    I’ve experienced the same problem. The MFD has suddenly dropped from 51 (I am driving a lot on the highway) to 45 right after the 60K service at local dealer in July and has never gotten back to normal. I have tried many things but don’t help. I've tried Chevron instead of Shell, tried premium gasoline, and tried to drive slower. The tire pressure is at 35psi.
    I am planning to contact Toyota for help but very disappointed to know that Toyota Corp. can’t also do much about it.
     
  13. hobba

    hobba New Member

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    If you have read my posts in this thread and have the same problem, you have my sympathy. I anticipate a call from Toyota corporate some time this month to follow up with me on this problem. They claim they have received similar calls from around the country, however, not all vehicles seem to have the problem judging by the lack of activity related to this topic on this site.

    I'm beginning to wonder if it isn't a computer or electronics problem. I used to get over 100 MPG on the first pip. With this tank of gas, I got 35 MPG on the first pip. My dealer went over the electronics on the car twice and claim everything is to spec.

    Its too early to tell if the BP gas I put in has made a difference or not. I will have to run a few tanks through to see.

    Its frustrating.............
     
  14. hobba

    hobba New Member

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    Latest update: After talking with Toyota corporate offices for the past few months, they have now recommended the cleaning of the fuel injection system. They made arrangements for my local dealer to perform the service at no charge and I had the work done on Oct. 20th. The gas tank was nearly empty at the time and I filled up with BP gas, ( with 10% ethanol). I have only put about 150 miles on the car since the service was performed, but mileage and MFD seem to be working as beforethe problem started. I got 112 miles on the first pip which is close to the 120 miles on the first pip I had always gotten before the problem started. The MFD currently reads 43.2 MPG which is within the range I was getting before as well. Obviously its too early to tell if the fuel injection system cleaning solved the problem. I plan on driving at least 2 or 3 tanks of gas before declaring the problem solved. Toyota wants me to call them after that and let them know if I feel this has solved the problem or not. They are anxious to know since they report others with the same problem as mine. Finally, I want to thank Toyota for their support and my local dealer, Ft. Myers Toyota for their help. I will report back to PriusChat members after I run those additional tanks through the car.
     
  15. richard schumacher

    richard schumacher shortbus driver

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    What kinda crappy gas were you buying to have fouled the injectors?
     
  16. oregonmike

    oregonmike Junior Member

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    hobba (& fellow members),

    Today I took my '09 in for its first oil change. Amongst the things recommended they suggested I have them add some Toyota brand of a fuel injection cleaner/additive to the gas tank as Oregon too has switched to a 10% ethanol blend. It was only $8.99 more, but I didn't have them add it.

    Since your experience should I go back and have them do it or what does anyone recommend?

    The dealership as well as many of the customers waiting don't like this whole ethanol business as well... but there is a time a place for that discussion, as we are stuck with it for now.
     
  17. hobba

    hobba New Member

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    Mike:

    The fuel injector cleaning seemed to work for awhile and then my mileage headed downward again. My earlier post regarding BP gas needs to be updated. They now have placed labels on the pump indicating they are using ethanol. My last 6 tanks of gas have avg. 44, 48, 39,41,38 and 38 MPG. I think since my car was 3 years old when I had the injectors cleaned, it probably helped a little in the short term, but not much in the long term as the mileage is going back down again. I am debating whether or not to contact Toyota again.
     
  18. oregonmike

    oregonmike Junior Member

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    Hobba,

    Thanks for the update, I have been averaging between 40-43 mpg/tanks since about November with the first 5000 miles and average daily temperatures in the low 30 to high 40's. I did get a full tank to 51 mpg on a trip south early this fall. Without a full summer of driving and mostly driving on flat grounds (15 minute daily commute) I am currently satisfied with the 40-43 given thats the worst I get. With Oregon being a full time 10% Ethanol user now, I don't think I would ever get as good as many others do whom don't have the Ethanol mandates.

    With that said, your troubles do seam strange and worrysome that it drastically dropped and remain down after such an extended time of "normal" averages. Sorry to hear about it heading back down.

    I find mixed reviews about the effects of Ethanol on fuel injectors and haven't had enough technical experience with engines to fully understand it myself.
     
  19. hobba

    hobba New Member

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    Mike:

    Like you, I had consistantly avg. 43 MPG over the 3 yr ownership period. I don't know when ethanol came to FL, but the change can be traced to my last visit to the dealer for rountine service in May of 2008. Things have never been the same since then.
     
  20. richard schumacher

    richard schumacher shortbus driver

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    Two simple things to suspect first. Both of these can be affected by routine service and by the sheer passage of time:

    Check the oil level five minutes after every oil change, before driving away. If you didn't check it last time, go do it now. It may be overfilled. Overfilling is correlated with fouling of the throttle plate and the air mass sensor.

    Check tire pressures at least monthly and adjust as needed. You will get better MPGs with tires at 42/40 front/rear, but some service techs insist on reducing them to the factory pressures.