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Adventures in Ventilatory Home Cooling

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by SageBrush, Jun 15, 2011.

  1. tomlouie

    tomlouie Member

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    If you really want to go hard core, how about Heat Recovery Ventilation?

    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_recovery_ventilation]Heat recovery ventilation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
    DIY ventilation heat exchanger - EcoRenovator

    Any home is going to need fresh air, especially if there are any combustion sources in the house. Using countercurrent air to air heat exchangers, you make sure that in the summer, the fresh air that comes into the house dumps its heat into the stale air going out of the house, resulting in less heat infiltration into the house when you're trying to stay cool. Conversely, in the winter, the stale air going out dumps its heat into the fresh air coming into the house that you're trying to keep warm.
     
  2. tomlouie

    tomlouie Member

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    Bury the tiles outside at night, about 6 feet deep. Then, when the house is hot, go out and bring in the tiles, which will have cooled to below air temperature. Once the tiles have warmed up to ambient air temperature in the house, bring them back outside and bury them again.

    Repeat.

    :)
     
  3. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Xs,
    I may not have done a good job of explaining how I currently ventilate. My walls point at 45, 135, 225, and 315 degrees. From MN to 7am wind usually blows (NW -- SW), so I place one portable fan outside my house on the deck of the second floor pointing 235 degrees, and then I place a second portable fan on the opposite side of house a few feet from the window screen, pointing outside the house. My idea is to create a draft of outside air through most of the house. Pushing air at the screen door is far from ideal, but leaving the door open is not an option.

    I agree that evaporating water into the house leading to high humidity is a bad idea. I was thinking more of only cooling using this route in the early morning hours when the ventilatory fan induced draft would carry the water vapor outside.

    Your comment about the ambient temperature jumping as soon as the fans are shut off sounds like a good proxy for how well I have cooled down by ventilation the house mass. I do not see the jump of a couple degrees you guessed, but I'll have to graph temperature rates of change for more sensitivity. I may have to invest in a thermometer with decimal accuracy.

    THANKS to all for the informative discussion :)
     
  4. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Hi Tom,

    Ignoring cost for the sake of discussion, a heat exchanger would indeed help me keep my night cooling inside the house, but I would have to button up the house for it to be effective, and the exchanger is power driven. I am more interested in optimizing night ventilation to cool down the heat mass as close as possible to the night-time outside ambient temperature nadir on a low budget. For now that means ~ 10 degrees F I am not taking advantage off. Certainly the heat gain during the day is making the job more difficult, and if inside mean temps rise as the summer goes on I'll have to decrease daytime convection.
     
  5. xs650

    xs650 Senior Member

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    If you fabricate something that couples the fans to the windows and doesn't allow any fan airflow to not go through the window, they will be much more effective. If you have horizontally sliding windows you might be able to make a panel that surrounds the fan and slips into the open window's track. That would make it easy to install and remove.
     
  6. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    ^^ Thanks, that sounds like a really good idea.
     
  7. xs650

    xs650 Senior Member

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    I was thinking of using something like this,

    Lasko Weather Shield 20 in. 3-Speed Box Fan - 3755 at The Home Depot

    or their model without a thermostat which is $5 cheaper. It would be easy to mount to a flat panel that dropped into the window track.

    A nicer option that would take more work would be to mount it so the window could be closed without taking the fan down.
     
  8. markf57

    markf57 Junior Member

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    I'm in Colorado, last summer we installed an AirScape whole house fan. It is a smaller, quieter and low energy consuming fan. We got the 1.7 model. I turn it on in the evening when the outside temp gets below inside on high and switch it to low when we go to bed.

    I does a great job. The secret is that it not only removes the heat from the air, it removes the heat from the structure, so in the morning we usually end up around 65 - 65 indoor temp.

    It' wasn't cheap, but I would do it again in a heatbeat.
     
  9. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Sage I always wondered if you lived in another country (since you say "petrol" a lot). My father always used to set up a whole house fan, blowing air out from my room, to pull cool air in at night. My sons house in NJ (apparently built before air cond) has a big house fan in the attic. When you turn it on, then a big panel opens up in the ceiling of the hall to let the air get up there. They don't use it. Never saw that before.
     
  10. ursle

    ursle Gas miser

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    ;)When I met my wife she was driving a 6 volt VW in central NYS, nights she would drain the oil and put the 6 quart pot on the wood stove overnight, in the morning she would pour it back into the VW, I really enjoyed learning that particular trick:heh:, unbelievably, the car lived for several years, ran great, eventually she sold it and I winced.
     
  11. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    I am an American-Israeli hybrid, so I mix units with abandon ;)

    Whole house fans sound like a stupendous idea, but the house has to have an attic. People who use powered 'AC' have no use for convection ventilation. If I lived in a high humidity locale I would be sorely tempted to go the heat exchanger+insulation route too. As it is, my environment has lots of dry, cool air in the evening -- all I have to do is flush my house with it ;)
     
  12. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    I just had an idea I'd like feedback on.

    My house is ducted for central heating and cooling. The cooling is hooked up to an non-operating evaporative cooler outside, and an NG furnace sited in the garage supplies heat in the winter (soon to be retired by lots of windows if I get my way.)

    I can use it now as a fan if I want to, but for reasons I do not understand clearly the fan is a 1 kw energy hog; and overall air exchange is not that great because of admixture. So here is the idea: rather than use the ducting to push outside air into the house, I'll use the ducting to pull air from upstairs and vent it outside with a fan spliced into the ductwork in the garage. The negative pressure in the house will pull outside air in through all the screened windows.

    What say you, folks ?
     
  13. xs650

    xs650 Senior Member

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    Fans are extremely sensitive to pressure. A conventional fan will move very little air through any type of duct work. That's why ac and heater blowers don't look like conventional fans.

    Not to keep harping on the same solution:D but fans in your upstairs windows blowing out would do a much better job of accomplishing moving air in that direction.
     
  14. tomlouie

    tomlouie Member

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    Do you have any CO sources? Neg pressure in the house tends to pull CO back into the house.
     
  15. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Good to know, thanks. Is this equally true for pulling air, as it is for pushing air ?
    Makes sense. Too bad most of my windows are downstairs, and the ones upstairs tend to face into the wind in the early morning hours. Nonetheless I'll switch the fans around for a couple of nights and see how it goes. Cheers!
     
  16. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    It makes more sense to me to bring in cooler air at the bottom of the house, and let the warmer air flow out the top. What you need is an outside air intake on the furnace. As long as the intake point is in a shaded area, the incoming air should be relatively cool. At night, you can let the furnace fan run on low speed, and the warm air will be replaced by cooler air as you sleep. For a low-tech but effective air conditioning system, burying an air supply tube in the yard will give you cooled air all day long, whatever the ambient temperature.
     
  17. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    We don't use AC, but we do use a whole house fan on the rare occasions when needed. Actually, we have three whole house fans, which kind of defeats the concept of "whole house". I suppose they weren't thinking of a building this size when the term was coined.

    Tom
     
  18. sipnfuel

    sipnfuel New Member

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    While a fan doesn't work well to move air in ducting, it will move air fairly well if placed against an open window to either blow air out, or blow air in.

    You can set up a fan downstairs to blow air in, while setting up another fan upstairs to blow air out. If you strategically place the fans so the air must move across the entire downstairs and upstairs in a meandering fashion before exiting, it will help.

    Secondly, what you want is to mix the hot air that is trapped in the ceiling with the cold air that hugs the floor. You can easily set up a fan to blow cold air upwards. It will cause the air to mix instead of stratifying into layers.


    If you could get a blower and ducting to work, it would be ideal to blow in cold air from the lowest point of your property to the very top of the house. Like filling a bottle with water, the air will flow downwards until your house is filled. It will try to displace any hot air that is below the duct's output. You need to have one window open in the opposite side of the house to let hot air escape due to the positive pressure.

    Finally, since you don't have an attic, you can get a sunroof that opens. They are relatively inexpensive and you can even have some set on a timer and also have weather sensitive ones that automatically close during wet weather.

    Anyways, experimenting with a couple $12 box fans from Walmart is worthwhile.
     
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  19. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Beautiful description :)

    I gather thus far:
    * Avoid Layering
    * Take advantage of rising heat
    * Try to set up a cold front pushing warm air out

    Not that easy to do efficiently
     
  20. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Senior Member

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    I hate you more :nod: