We have limitless money for things I don't support, and yet my daughter's school has to hold bake sales to get text books in the library. We throw $billions at Fuel Cell research, and leave the bulk of the battery research up to the private sector. Many things would change if I were Supremem Ruler of All. First thing is that we'd start using the metric system in the USA!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lowlander @ Apr 23 2007, 12:13 PM) [snapback]428380[/snapback]</div> Thank you lowlander. I figured that presentation was just typical corporate bologna. Apparently not so. I'm trying hard not to sound ignorant here, but the batteries are only a small portion of their portfolio, based on that presentation. Didn't even see Phoenix mentioned. As if they have so much on their plate ... that the biggest thing to happen in EV tech in the last decade was just kind of an afterthought to their business plan. There was an intriguing mention that they ALREADY sell their electrode material to China-- wonder if that's what driving the long-lived Chinese Li-ion batteries that have appeared in some posts here on battery-related topics? I recall them being based on a different chemistry (lithium-manganese), but ultimately I don't care. If the specs are real, I can't believe GM wouldn't JUST BUY the relevant materials and produce the batteries. In a business, sense, as far as I can tell from these things, they appear to be competent. As if they really understand what they're doing, both technically and economically. Their market cap is >$100M. So, IMHO, they have all the earmarks of the real deal. They didn't even bother to tout Phoenix in their investor materials. How cool is that?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hjon71 @ Apr 23 2007, 04:31 PM) [snapback]428692[/snapback]</div> The difference here is that the ACP car is available. And independently tested. And it's price is not dependent on the sale of ZEV credits. In other words - for right now the ACP car is the only "real" offering on the table.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Apr 24 2007, 05:08 PM) [snapback]429386[/snapback]</div> But only in California.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Apr 24 2007, 09:30 PM) [snapback]429551[/snapback]</div> Good point. But come on - admit it. You're just happy that you didn't have to cave in on aesthetics. Not sure what the distribution plans are for the Phoenix truck. As most folks know, so far the production cars were limited to the West coast (mostly CA, and a bit of Arizona). Even Tesla will charge an "out of area" fee in the beginning, as I understand it. So for the short term at least, it will be tough for the folks outside of CA
I have always thought the Xb was extremely ugly. But I would still buy this thing if it were to drop to say $50k. Maybe I'll just sell my prius and buy one anyway. Who cares what it looks like when gas is soon to be $4+/gal and I can still drive the 80mi to work gasoline free! I would buy it just to promote EVs, and plaster it with in-your-face decals: "No tailpipe here". If enough are sold, the price will drop, other MFG's will make more, and finally we'll have publicly available EVs and get off this "Hybrid" thing! I just think it's funny they chose one of the least aerodynamic looking vehicles. I don't know what its Cd is, but no where near the Prius! Side note: The AC Prop pricing plan is a little more involved, and a bit variable. See eBox pricing HERE
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jgills240 @ Apr 25 2007, 10:27 AM) [snapback]429911[/snapback]</div> Same reason Toyota chose the Rav4: Most practical to make swing the other way - NOT most practical vehicle for aerodynamics. Still, both cars, relative to their "class" are quite slippery through the wind. Believe me, I'd LOVE a Prius EV. Good lord.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Apr 25 2007, 09:00 AM) [snapback]429815[/snapback]</div> I admit it. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Apr 25 2007, 09:00 AM) [snapback]429815[/snapback]</div> I'd pay the extra 8 grand. That gets all the warranty service and any needed repairs. They'll fly out a service person, or if needed flatbed the car in and back. And it also includes delivery at time of purchase. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jgills240 @ Apr 25 2007, 10:27 AM) [snapback]429911[/snapback]</div> Not really. You supply an xB and they'll convert it for a flat $55,000. There are a few options you can get, just as with any car. NAV, leather, fancy wheels: all unnecessary. The price for the xBox is $55K and you supply the xB, whose price depends on what options you order from Toyota.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Apr 25 2007, 12:11 PM) [snapback]430008[/snapback]</div> Or, more symantically correct: You supply the xB and the "ox" costs $55,000.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Apr 25 2007, 01:26 PM) [snapback]430021[/snapback]</div> That would make it an "xBox", not an "eBox". I don't care how good the games are, I ain't payin' $55K to get an xBox!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Apr 25 2007, 12:26 PM) [snapback]430021[/snapback]</div> That's a hell of a lot of money for a de-nutted male cow.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Apr 25 2007, 02:11 PM) [snapback]430008[/snapback]</div> Right, but you can find xB's for a variety of prices. If you could find a low miles xB that for some reason the engine didn't run but was structurally sound, you could get it for well under their $13-15k tag. no way around their install fee. That's what i meant by variable.... <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Apr 25 2007, 10:56 PM) [snapback]430246[/snapback]</div> don't do it, video games are a ploy to get everybody to sit at home and consume! Continued from my earlier post: I took a poll of some of my friends who are interested in alternative vehicles about whether or not they would buy an 'ugly' xB if they didn't have to pay for gas..... I was the only one who would. and that's with me trying to persuade them to my side.
I notice the 35 kWh pack weighs 600 pounds (272 kg). That puts it at 129 Wh/kg which is surprising as the ACP T-Zero pack from a couple of years ago was about 160 Wh/kg including all packaging (180 Wh/kg for the individual cells). Perhaps they have reigned in the available depth of discharge in search of longevity?
