??? about battery replacement. Also rear-ended.

I'd really like to know how they're spoofing the canbus to avoid errors/DTC's. There's virtually no way to satisfy the HV battery ECU's voltage monitors with LI Ion batteries. The voltages are just too different.

 

Glad to hear of an established and reputable source for replacement batteries.

But my questions would be, if the warranty is 3 year "Nation Wide" are you networking with shops throughout the US?

I'm honestly just not a big DIY person. So when/if the time comes for me, I'm probably looking at having to pay for installation. Would you have partner shops regionally that would do this work?

Separately...to the OP of this post.

Don't know if I would pick the Lithium Ion battery. BUT..bold choice. Purely selfishly I am curious how it works for you, immediately and over a period of time. So as others have stated, YES please keep us updated and good luck.

 

It's a 5 year unlimited warranty if the business stays in business that long. Toyota however, will not have an issue staying around for another 10 years.

I believe there are just a lot of skeptical people here believing there's Lithium Ion available for these cars. Did you open up the pack to see what those modules look like? Or did it have a sticker that says, if you open our pack, you lose your 5 year warranty?

 

I want to be clear that I am not saying you are an idiot.
I'm glad there is someone willing to be a pioneer and give the lithium a try..
Even happier that you are willing to provide updates.

Since it is in your hometown, it lessens the risk even more than if you were far away from the source

I would start a new thread. Something like long term experience with lithium hybrid battery replacement.

 

Hi Eric,
1) We are not saying you're an idiot. We are just inquisitive, in a brash way lol. Sometimes we who think we're Prius experts can be a little over the top.

2) The end voltage or the overall voltage can be matched up quite well but, module pair voltages or what the Prius calls block voltages are virtually impossible to match without some sort of spoofer or voltage adjuster connected to the outputs of the module pairs. Here's what I mean

Nimh cell puts out 1.2v nominally
each module contains 6 cells = 7.2V nom
The Prius measures the module voltage in pairs = 14.4v nom

Li Ion cell puts out 3.2V nom.
3.2 * 5 = 16
3.2 * 4 = 12.8
that's what I mean by not matching. The ECU is looking for 14.4 + or - and the Li Ion is putting out either 12.8 + or - or 16 + or -. Theoretically, this will cause errors in the system. To account for this, they would likely have placed a processor in the battery case that basically says if x = 12.8 the tell the system its 14.4 and so on. Does that make sense???

 

^^ Yep.
Even a full swap of NiMH to Li-x is going to require ECU reprogramming or some sort of fakery.

I wonder how Toyota handles the Prius v(agon) with NiMH in some of the cars and Li-x in others.

 

Most likely have a different ECU part number for the Alpha vs. the V that has different firmware. They already have differences and programming costs. So the cost to stock 2 differently programmed modules is acceptable. They already stock the MFD in different languages and units of measure. For instance there is Japanese and English, but also English in miles/gallons and English in kilometers and l/100km.

 

This is my guess, too. If true, it will be an interesting upgrade path.

 

Read on an external site that the lithium chemistry is inherently more sensitive to high and low temperatures than NIMH.
Will the battery temperature sensors work on your lithium battery?
If so, could you track say BT2 or battery temp sensor number two and see how your battery does with higher and lower temps?
I would be very interested.

 

Maybe so, maybe not.

I'd be more than a little nervous about putting a LI battery in a vehicle not originally designed for it but IF the company producing it is known to be reliable, the increased warranty would probably sway me the other way. One needs to actually READ the whole warranty though, and keep a copy of it, as there might be some "if's and's and but's" in there that are not desirable.

 

If I (a somewhat startup company) were to offer you an iron clad 10 year warranty on a non proven gen2 li-ion battery, would you take it over a brand new battery from Toyota with a 1 year warranty?

 

Don't buy from JC, buy MY warranty.
Iron-clad.

At least until I go out of business.

 

So for like $50. more I can get brand new cells?

 

Pretty much, but not exactly. Compared to say what Eric Becky offers, here are other differences I am aware of:

1. Expect to drive to a retailer to pick up the new OEM, and drive again to return the core. Eric Becky called most of the vendor list a week ago and was told in each case that shipping is not offered.
2. For states that have sales tax, pay up.
3. The new OEM has a 12 month warranty; some of the refurbs offer 36 months, albeit with a $250 replacement charge and a warranty that is only as good as the vendor who gives it and stays in business.
4. The refurbs come with the ECU and harness attached; the new OEM requires you to reuse the parts from the old battery*.

Lastly, unless you are a discriminating shopper, I think it more accurate to say you are buying an unused OEM battery. At least in theory it seems possible to buy a battery that has sat on a shelf for years. I think this is avoidable, but I do not have experience to say for sure.

*An interesting twist for Gen2 owners would be to buy an OEM Gen3 pack and a used Gen3 ECU if the harness is otherwise identical. That sounds like a pretty sound 10 year investment to me.

 

The warranty would be worthless IF the company goes out of business.
Nothing "iron clad" about it at all.

 

Rider 2, the only thing ironclad is the bell curve on oil production.
You guys got something against idiots? We've got rights too, buddy, and feelings!
Thanks for the thread, Bacchus. My 02 Prius has 163,000 miles, looks and runs like new, avg. 49mpg and when the battery poops again I would not hesitate to plunk down a couple thousand dollars to change the battery on this car that cost $700.
I'm sure there is something better on the horizon for batteries, and like knee joints, cell phones, and laptops, it will get cheaper and better as these cars get older and the demand for the product increases- instead of being the tiny niche market it is today. There is no need for a battery pack to cost what it does.
My HV battery is 12 years old and works well...I never had a 12v. lead-acid battery that went 5 years.
Still I wonder...if Toyota sells NEW batteries, why do they need my OLD modules back?

 

Toyota made a commitment when the Prius first came out to keep NiMH out of landfills. True to their word, Toyota has a recycling plant. I saw a video a few months ago of the plant in action -- very nifty.

And as I sure you are aware, getting the old modules back to Toyota for recycling requires a chain motivated by money.

 

Absolutely, but your arithmetic ability is less common by the year -- as is your understanding that you need to have a few thousand dollars available for repairs.