1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

A Chinese (err Japenese) puzzle box

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by rcroft, May 31, 2005.

  1. rcroft

    rcroft New Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2005
    63
    0
    0
    Location:
    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
    It took over three hours and the thought of a cab did cross my mind. However, in the twenty years that I've been driving, I've locked my keys in the car two other times. In both cases, AAA got me into the car in under five minutes after the tow truck arrived. So the expectation was that the same would happen that day.

    Also, at that point, I had no wallet, id, money, or house keys on me. I seriously considered taking a cab home and then breaking through the window of the back door of our house to get inside, while the cab waited for payment. But then I figured that my wife's wallet probably didn't have enough money in it for the cab ride, which would then require a further cab ride to the ATM and a very patient cab driver.

    The other possibility would have been to call our neighbor, who has a key to our house and have them get my wife's purse and drive it over to us. However, since it was Memorial Day, they weren't home.

    Breaking through one of car windows with a large rock would have likely been my solution had the second tow truck driver or a locksmith been unsuccessful. In fact with the stress and frustration levels mounting, I was beginning to look forward to it.
     
  2. Tyeise

    Tyeise New Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2005
    22
    0
    0
    Location:
    Rhode Island
    I'm surprised the engine started, even with the fob in the car if you had turned off the SKS.

    Tyeise
     
  3. rcroft

    rcroft New Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2005
    63
    0
    0
    Location:
    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
    One of the steps taken when the first tow truck driver was there was to use that long bendable rod to push the "Key" button under the steering wheel to turn on the SKS. Once that was done, the little red car with key symbol started flashing on the dash board, so it knew the fob was inside the car, but the car still wouldn't let me unlock the doors or open the windows using any of the door controls.

    Unfortunately, it wasn't until an hour and a half or so later, when the second tow truck driver arrived that I thought about having him push the Power button. Once that was done, all the door controls magically started working.

    (And the engine didn't actually start, it just went into the accessory mode. The same as would happen if you press the power button without your foot on the brake.)
     
  4. rcroft

    rcroft New Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2005
    63
    0
    0
    Location:
    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
    I've never had to outwit a car before. And during this battle of wits, I was beginning to think that the car would win.

    However, in the back of my mind, I was able to console myself with the knowledge that sometimes when wits fail, brawn will succeed. There was always the option of finding that large rock.
     
  5. bruceha_2000

    bruceha_2000 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2004
    3,054
    301
    19
    Location:
    Northwest VT
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Really? I'll have to test this but I'm 99% positive that the time I tried to lock mine from the outside when I had not powered down, it scolded me by beeping and did not lock.

    Maybe I wasn't in Ready mode, having been listening to the radio while I made some notes before leaving the car. I don't leave it in Park for any appreciable time while 'running' since that will discharge the traction battery faster causing the ICE to start, waste gas and decrease my tank MPGs. :)
     
  6. bruceha_2000

    bruceha_2000 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2004
    3,054
    301
    19
    Location:
    Northwest VT
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Then you have to know which is the cheapest window. If yourwallet was close enough to reach through the little windows in the back, that would be my guess for the cheapest. Otherwise you have to know if the front or rear side windows are cheaper since you would be shoving your 5 year old through it.

    I am sorry for your tale of woe, but at least you have educated many people in the potential solutions to such a problem. Me, I'm taking your experience to heart. If there is any reason for me to leave the fob in the car and take the little key, it will be on a wrist or neck chain. Hmm, I could get one ear pierced and use the key as a 'conversation piece' earing. Then again, maybe I won't. :D
     
  7. Tyeise

    Tyeise New Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2005
    22
    0
    0
    Location:
    Rhode Island
    After reading this thread yesterday, when I was reading the manual, I looked to see what it said. Surprisingly, it mentioned that breaking the smallest window would result in smallest cost. I've never seen a manual suggest breaking a window before!
     
  8. DanMan32

    DanMan32 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2004
    3,799
    27
    0
    Location:
    Tampa Bay, FL
    Done that. CD Wallet containing bunch of computer CDs fell almost a mile away.
    I thought I might have absentmindedly threw them out as I had a bag of used kitty litter in other hand to put in the trash. Trash day was that day, and didn't realize they were missing until the next day.
    'not in car, must be home'. Wait till get home. 'not home, must be at work'. wait til get to work. 'not at work, must be ????' panic, grief, resolve.

    A year later a guy calls saying he found it, but didn't know how to contact me. Then he took out one of the business cards I used to store the CD keycodes on the back of it, flipped it over, and was able to call me at work.
     
  9. rcroft

    rcroft New Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2005
    63
    0
    0
    Location:
    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
    How about that...

    Page 261 of the 2005 owners manual - "If you lose your keys"

    If your keys are locked in the vehicle and you cannot get a duplicate, many Toyota dealers can still open the door for you, using their special tools. If you must break a window to get in, we suggest breaking the smallest side window because it is the least expensive to replace. Be extremely cautious to avoid cuts from the glass.
     
  10. Tyeise

    Tyeise New Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2005
    22
    0
    0
    Location:
    Rhode Island
    Thanks for finding the exact quote. :)
     
  11. mtc1234

    mtc1234 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    39
    0
    0
    Location:
    Laurel, MD
    So...

    If I have SKS disabled...
    And, I'm in the car with the doors locked...
    I can't unlock the doors? What can you do inside the car that couldn't be done by the AAA guy?

    I'm either missing a nuance of the initial, confounding (yet entertainingly told) store, or I'll be shocked when I go out and test this out by locking myself in the car! Of course, then I'll start the car and roll down the windows.

    I can't figure out what I'm missing; but, I'm confident someone can point it out! Thanks

    mtc

    iterestingly I came across this post by searching on "key", "fob", "lock", "inside" because I want to lock the doors when I go jogging and only have to carry the little key. (I'd forgotten about the SKS disable button.)
     
  12. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    19,891
    1,193
    9
    Location:
    Nixa, MO
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    MTC, good point. I've not tried to reproduce this myself. It may be a feature of when the car is locked via an external source (ie the fob button or sks) that the inside controls are disabled.

    I'll have to test this out sometime soon if noone else does/has.
     
  13. delrey

    delrey Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2004
    280
    14
    0
    Location:
    SF Bay Area (East Bay)
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    There is a time delay, I believe, before this behavior is activated. But yes, if you wait however long that is (someone can probably tell us ...) then you'll be locked in!
     
  14. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    10,339
    14
    0
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    I read the part in the manual about breaking the little windows because they're cheapest to repair.

    And all I could think of was.....so what? What good does it do you to break any of the little triangle windows? Exactly what can you reach from there?
     
  15. Tyeise

    Tyeise New Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2005
    22
    0
    0
    Location:
    Rhode Island
    I wondered that myself. I know I couldn't reach much from that!
     
  16. mtc1234

    mtc1234 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    39
    0
    0
    Location:
    Laurel, MD
    Well, last night I gave it a shot. I got in the car and disabled the SKS. I then locked the door with the door open, using the electronic lock button. I then waited about 30 seconds or so for the alarm to engage.

    With trepidation, I reached for the flip lock level above the door handle. I flipped it and car immediately started beeping and flashing.

    Did the lever flip back closed? How did I open the door? I don't remember! I panicked. I immediately started doing whatever I could to silence the alarm - pushing buttons on the fob, pushing the start button, opening the door and holding the fob outside the car and pushing its buttons (I don't recall how I opened that door).

    I don't know whether the alarm was turned off or timed out after 30 seconds. In concern for my neighbors, and not wanting to embarrass myself more, I decided not to reproduce the experiment. I have to figure out a good place to redo this. However, my impression is that flipping the level let me open the door. In the original situation, did the flipping of the lever get tried more than once? If it was just once, maybe the right amount of pressure wasn't applied, and it was flipped enough to cause the alarm but not stay unlocked? More experiments will have to be performed.

    It seems to me that if the little key opens the door and disables the alarm, the AAA guy should have been able to slim jim the door unlocking mechanism to the same effect.
     
  17. delrey

    delrey Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2004
    280
    14
    0
    Location:
    SF Bay Area (East Bay)
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    When my son was locked in the car, he definitely tried hard, multiple times. However, he was in the back seat. As you say, more experiments need to be done. I'm planning on trying a couple things at work Friday (after the parking lot has emptied a bit).

    Mine doesn't time out after 30 seconds. It was still beeping away after I ran into the house, searched for the keys, and ran back outside.
     
  18. rcroft

    rcroft New Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2005
    63
    0
    0
    Location:
    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
    I would sure hope that the prius is smart enough that if the doors are locked from the inside with the doors closed that it wouldn't go into it's impenetrable mode. However if you lock the doors from the outside or open the driver side door press the lock button on the inside door armrest, and then close the door (as my wife did at the water park), then it will not unlock from the inside.

    As far as locking yourself in the car... My guess is that you'd be okay if you have the SKS fob with you and the SKS is enabled. In my case, the SKS was disabled when I locked the car and was later turned back on by the AAA guy. In that case, even though it recognized that the fob was in the car, it wouldn't unlock the doors. I'm willing to bet that if the SKS was on when the door was locked, it probably wouldn't have behaved that way.

    However, I can see some potentially dangerous situations with this vehicle immobilizer feature...

    Lets say you leave your car unlocked in your driveway and then your six year old son were to climb into the car, press the lock button on the door, and then close the door. At that point, he is not going to be able to get out of the car, or even open the windows, without the SKS fob or the little spare key.

    However, I think this will require some experimenting, because I can think of at least one more safety mechanism Toyota might have put in... delrey's son was locked in the car and couldn't get out, but he was in the back seat. What if he was in the front seat? Could Toyota have used the seatbelt weight sensors in the front seats to allow the doors to be unlocked?

    Should be able to test all of this by leaving the driver side window open. Close the doors and reach in and press the lock button on the door armrest and see if you can later unlock it. You might have to wait for a timeout first before trying to unlock.

    If that produces the condition, then next get in the car with the doors closed and try the same thing.

    Repeat the above steps except press the lock button on the door armrest with the door open, then close the door (as my wife did at the water park).
     
  19. DanMan32

    DanMan32 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2004
    3,799
    27
    0
    Location:
    Tampa Bay, FL
    The owner's manual says to open the door from the inside to test the alarm. Not sure if that would cause it to relock before it actually opened.

    As for jimmying the manual key lock, I believe the linkage is such that it cannot be jimmied.

    When I had roadservice help me with a flat during week of Christmas, guy said he had lots of calls that week of people locked out of Prius'. He said it was real tricky to unlock, as it relocks itself, and alarm goes off. Probably better to try and pick the lock. Not sure if the tumbler is double sided like the key is.
     
  20. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    9,810
    466
    0
    Location:
    MD
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    i tested my alarm. and it made me jump so fast i didn't have time to check if it re-locked immediately...

    yikes, that's loud.