a 12k prius mod to achieve 200+mpg!

I don't think you understand.
MPG (miles per gallon) cannot be correlated to miles driven on electricity stored from plugging the car in.
(There's no gallons there. It's not infinite MPG. It's not MPG at all.)

That doesn't make plug-ins a bad idea.
It's simply not correct to cite MPG for miles driven on electricity not derived from the car combusting gasoline.
I have a degree in mechanical engineering and would not mislead you on this.

 

Dont forget that "(at under 34 mph)" part!.. they talk alot about alot of things but negate to mention too much about that!....

Anything over 34mph and your using gas too!... true the extra reserve from the extra battery capacity will toss your mileage up.. especially in city driving to very nice numbers... but highway driving will only go up a little bit...

You will have more regen storage to use later and hopefully the computer will be reprogrammed to better utilize it for speeds above 34mph.

I am very excited at the promise and future of plugin..... It will piss off alot of people who don't have it and it will upset the oil companies for losing business and it will upset the lawmakers for not getting their gasoline tax.

But it is a move to the future... the cool thing about using electricity rather than other methods are that it can be made right from the sun or wind or hydro..

I see a future where roof tops of houses make power for home and auto use and convect heat at the same time for water storage.

We have alot of untapped resources all over the planet in the way of electricity that doesn't hurt the planet at all!

Biofuels, hydrogen and many of the other methods are too easily "controlled, rationed, and sold for rediculous prices"... if we can use electricity and obtain economical ways to tap it from the waste sunlight and wind of our environment..... the better off we are!...

It will be hard to raise the price on us even if we pull from the grid because it will also affect all other customers too!... they will have a hard time targeting hybrid users to screw them out of cheap fuel.

 

I'll try one more time, and give up.

No one is trying to convert electricity into petrol in this exercise. They are saying that in different conditions related to speed, there will be a petrol consumption rate, and an electricity consumption rate.

The electricity consumption is fairly constant at 250 kWh/mile; the petrol use varies by amount of assist the ICE provides.

 

Only because I have read Kilorans posts and we have discussed this in the past.... I think what he is trying to say is that it is very misleading an unfair to boast of 70mph or 100mph or whatever "if" some of those miles were really due to electric energy from the grid or any source that was not generated with gasoline from the ICE.

Presently the Prius "is not" an alternative energy vehicle... it merely "recaptures" wasted kinetic energy and stores it in the form of electricity in batteries to be used at a later time.

All in all it is a very "efficeint" car.

ALL of the energy used by the prius is generated from gasoline! All of it!.. so the more efficeint you drive etc. the more you can legally boast of a higher mpg (miles per Gallon of Gas)

"Gas" being the key word here!

Once the prius becomes plugin, you will no longer be able to rate your car in terms of mpg.... because "miles per gallon" is exactly that... every mile you get has to be derived from the use of the gas. Once you are using plug-in power you will have to use different terms to be honest.

Did that help, or did I make it worse?

 

It doesn't really matter that this modification will cost $12k and that it will not pay for itself over its lifetime.

What matters is that several corporate and public bodies will buy them into their fleets for "green image" or evaluation purposes, and the news that they are absolutely brilliant will then slowly begin to filter down through the newspapers, television, editorials etc until (a) the general public people realise that they really want plug-in hybrids and (B) Toyota sees that people are ready for and demanding plug-in hybrids.

When this happens Toyota will be able to make 30-mile PHEVs for about $2-3k over a normal Prius and THAT'S when the PHEV revolution will really begin.

 

I finally got to Kiloran & also to EricGo in this thread. I had to hold off replying, as early on nobody was taking into account the cost of the electric power going into the batteries. I always look at cost per mile, $/mi. Converting gallons to $ using whatever marginal gasoline rate you assume, as well as electricity to $ using whatever marginal rate you assume, is really the only way to be fair about comparing strictly on cost alone. Some good analyses in here, and thank you ERIC-GO for getting to the accurate expression.
The mod that started this thread is very interesting, and I'll read through that some more, as well as keeping up on future developments.
But, bottom line is miles per dollar for cost comparisons. Otherwise we're all comparing numbers in differing units! This is, of course, cost comparisons alone, and does not get into the deeper issues of relative environmental impacts of various forms of energy input/storage.
VERY INTERESTING STUFF.
THANK YOU

 

In the words of the beatles:.. So ya say you want a revolution???? well ya know!...

Anyway..I agree... once Toyota decides its time... it will be cheap!.. batteries are now becoming available.... especially LiIon batts are only just now becoming available...

It was only a few months ago and even still today that when I talk about a hybrid..... I get the response "are those the ones you have to plug in?"
the public is still totally uninformed..... and even on the forums many folks are only now becoming educated as the the difference. Its true Amercans are still afraid of the hassle, necessity and complexity of having to plug in.

As soon as the public is not afraid to plug in, it will come!
The first step is the hybrid.... they need to know that a car that can use electric and still be still luxurious and reliable and powerful!

Once the hybrid is common knowledge in america and accepted, then the plugin will be ready.

But we want it now!!!!!.. well I'm with you on that one!

We "are" starting a revolution!... Toyota is leading the pack!
Honda has merely installed an automatic switch to the ICE but by no means has the technology and quality in the hybrid realm the prius has...... sorry.. if you disagree, you haven't yet studied both closely enough yet!
Honda is almost a joke!... they have chosen to do the extreme basics to improve gas mileage without going the extra mile to make it a true machine!.. the results they built ended up being a very clunky piss poor excuse for a hybrid.
Here is an opinion of the governments views on who deserves the most credit for being a hybrid: http://www.aceee.org/transportation/hybtaxcred.htm
Fortunately, they take no account for luxury, smoothness, etc.

Honda is giving hybrid a bad name!... But they are ahead of GM and some of the other lame excuses for an attempt, but no one compares to what Toyota has done!
How is the public supposed to get turned on to hybrids if they test drive one and its a turn off?

I have confidence Toyota has a very close eye on this situation and already has tested and has near proven its prototypes and I'm sure as soon as batteries become available and the public is warmed up to it, we will see hybrid plugin cars that have much higher performance, mpg and efficiency than the current ones.

But don't expect anyone besides Toyota to come up with this..... because all the other manufacturers don't have the guts to ride the edge and they want to play it safe.

It takes someone with real "vision" and conviction to be able go into the unknown and do it at a big finacial risk and cost and with boldness to do it with excellence or not at all attitude. I applaud Toyota!!!!! Its about time we have a hero!

I have always owned american... I have only since Oct.05 even been interested in Toyota and their prius. After my first test drive that totally blew me away, I have poured myself into research and study about this car as I am now purchasing Two of them..... the more I learn, the more I am amazed and astounded at the effort, excellence, and ingeinuety Toyota has put into the prius.

I have faith that they will continue the battle... they are a hit and a revolution!

 

Yes. I think you understand.
My objection isnot about either claims of improved efficiency nor the potential of plug-ins.
It is about the various claims throughout the article of "mileages" from 80-200 "mpg", the use of these terms being clearly improper in the context used.

 

Exactly!
UDAMAN!

 

It will be really sweet when we truely can get that much mpg out of one gallon of gas!

they say one cup of gas has enough explosive power as a stick of dynamyte when properly vaporized and combusted.

I'm not a physicist by any means.. but I think the energy is there.. we just have many many resistance points and losses..... but we're getting there!

 

Perfect analysis;
When I saw and drove the Prius at a test drive I was completely amazed and still am.....I had to have it!!
Now,I'm thinking to the next step,Plug-in Prius,let's see what the future has in store for us..

 

Welcome Zagor!... your deliema is very common!....

whether your buying a computer, monitor, cellphone, pda, HDTV, etc etc.... anything technical will outdate before your warranty is up?..

that problem will never end!... Just jump in and go for a swim!

The resale on the prius is phenominal compared to other cars. and with the tax credit, you can't go wrong.

 

Don't forget the the 12.8 cents/kWh for the over night recharge. This is times 9 kWh for the battery capacity= $1.15 to go 60 miles.
Darn, Ok,... so it's costs = 1/2 a gallon of gas, so it's twice as cost effective to use the battery(something we already know).
If it weren't for the initial costs it'd be a good deal.

 

Battery use also has energy conversion losses going into the battery and back out.

 

wow 12.8 per kwh... electricity sure is expensive

 

In British Columbia it's approximately 6 cents (Canadian)per Kwh
Gary

 

Precisely! And let's take this a step further...

The onboard computer could be setup to get that information automatically from the charger and do the math for you. All you would have to do is tell it (the onboard car computer) your KWH cost and gas price paid. It could then show you constantly your "cost per mile".

OR if you insist on mpg figures, the computer could even convert the "BTU (electric) to BTU (gas)" and figure a "mpg" figure. For example if a "gallon of electricity" costs $1.00 and a gallon of gas is actually at $2.00 then the "gallon of electricity" would actually count as just a 1/2 a gallon of real gas used regarding the computation of the mpg figures shown on the MFD.

Rick
West Central FL
Finally got my '06 #4 silver AND just filled it up for the first time today, so far 51 mpg, mostly HWY at 50-60 mph. VERY PLEASED WITH THE CAR!! My former daily driver (80 HWY miles roundtrip) was a '97 F-150. Great truck and plan on keeping it (215,000 miles). But at 17.5 mpg well...