4th generation coming 2015!

lol, I'm taking this as a half joke. Half joke filled with sarcasm or are you really around the 4th gen taped up?

I sure hope this recall doesn't delay it.

Now, Nissan announced the next Leaf due when, 2016? When's the Volt 2?

I'm thinking that the future of cars would be based on the software and OS that help them gain an extra 1mpg or so, and that there would be new releases every 1-2 years. Here's to hoping

Wouldn't it be cool if there was an easy battery/energy swap too? IE, they were made so that all you need is an extra circuit board to say, switch Gen III with a larger battery pack of Li-ion. I know they have something like this, but it's not pushed by the manufacturers...

Or update the infotainment system to be more sleek. Car companies can be software companies too

 

What about some 100 lb. additional battery packs that could simply be placed in the luggage compartment and plugged into the system, daisy-chaining them together if necessary. Available to rent at dealer or wherever (like ZipCar) when longer range was needed. Cross-platform compatibility preferred in plug, software and tie-downs.

PA Prius

 

Inferno, take most of my comments as a joke. No sarcasm intended. Well .... no personal sarcasm. I am plenty sarcastic about government personalities ... as you will read below.

Actually, what was on my mind was mostly a comment about all the snow we have had. Yesterday I had to drive over our mountain pass, and it was snowing very hard, and the wind was howling. I could hardly see the road. If I'd had my camera, I would have taken a picture of my "blizzard white" 2010 in the snow, and no one would have been able to see a thing.

I need to look into the recall. I had not heard about that. Thanks.

I am afraid we live in a society where manufacturers are not too interested in upgrades .... they want the consumer to buy a new model. Case in point (but there are many examples). I own a Sony digital camera. Fantastic Karl Zeiss optics, great flash, metering system and such ... but it is only 8 megapixels. Isn't it a shame that Sony doesn't produce, as an upgrade, the small internal imaging component that would convert the camera to a 16 (or higher) megapixel camera. Planned obsolescence is the key.

I once read that Ford's marketing plan was that if a vehicle component lasted much longer than the warranty, it was a design failure. I am not sure I believe that, but there is much more emphasis on replacement rather than upgrade. And of course now days, the emphasis is on providing jobs even part-time jobs ... so you can spend more time with your children reading them stories.

As for power swaps, and "daisy chain" power packs .... I am not sure it would be a good idea for the "low-information" general public to be plugging and unplugging 460 volt battery packs.

 

Every couple of weeks I check this thread but all I see is long-winded, unfocused ramblings.

 

kabin - I agree, and I recognize that my post are part of the problem that you describe. But dang-it, there is no news coming from Toyota, and what does emerge, seems confusing and contradictory. Toyota seems content to rest on their past success, and not be concerned about the buying public anxiously awaiting the next generation Prius. Whereas other manufacturers, seem to keep the interest up, dropping small bits of information and keeping their customers "on the line." Pick up any auto magazine, and there are featured articles about upcoming models about the competitors. .

I am beginning to believe that Toyota is experiencing problems meeting the expectations, including fuel efficiency, handling, comfort and cost. The G3 was a wonderful achievement in all of those area, and it may be very difficult to eclipse that success. OTOH, no other manufacturer has been able to, although some are getting closer and closer.

It has been reported that many of Toyotas patents expire soon. Might this enable others to finally close the gap?

 

It is human nature to speculate and try to fill in the gaps.
The lack of information is disappointing. However, I hope that it will simply mean a pleasant surprise when something is finally announced.

 

Yeah the patents expire which is why Toyota has their new "Global Architecture".

We might see Civic Hybrids run on the Senergy system in the future :O

 

A great many manufacturers of other products do the same as Toyota. Too much talk about the next product, not yet available, kills sales of the current product.

 

Okay .... this is on topic:

I read that Toyota was developing (considering) induction methodology for charging the HV battery in future Prius (and other company hybrids). Elsewhere, I read that an electric toothbrush uses induction charging.

For the first time, home charging interest me, especially, if (as described) you would drive over a charging mat in the garage, and induction would charge the HV battery automatically. I think of the toothbrush .... I don't turn anything on, or take any action to charge the device other than put it in it's cradle.

Those of you with far greater understanding of this, can to explain in layman's term, what the pro's one cons are of induction charging? Is the charging directly between the "induction pad" (for want of a better term) and the battery? or is there a "receiver" that converts the induced power to DC? Are the charging times significantly different from plug-in? Is there danger to humans and other metallic vehicles, toys, wrist watches, hearing aides and etc that walk over the "induction pad?" (I know of no issues with the toothbrush, but that has to be a minute charge compared to a vehicle).

Lastly, is induction charging feasible from a cost point? I assume plug-in would be cheaper?

 

I have one of those electric toothbrushes
Induction charging works great for that. I am skeptical how well it will work for cars.

The general rule is that the closer the 'induction pad' and receiver are the more efficient.
The Charger, still has its innefficiency to deal with.

One of the challenges with this is the speed of the charge, and the inefficiencies as that pad and receiver are likely many inches, if not a foot apart.

I am aware of no safety issues.

Add to that, you need to rip up the floor to install the induction pad. Added cost for both installation in your garage as well as installation in the car.

It definately would be even more convenient. I still remember the inconvenience of pumping gas (especially in winter). I am quite happy with the significantly increased convenience of wall charging over pumping gas. The incremental increase in convenience between wall charging and induction charging is a smaller step.

 

It is not induction. It is resonant. Charging loss is pretty low despite the distance. It can transferred through many materials safely (cat crawls on charging pad).

I thought they plan to use it only for next gen PiP. It is a complementary feature to Smart Key. because, right now I need to unplug it before getting in and driving away. Ideally, I won't need to take out my keys or unplug. Just open the door and drive away fully charged.

Toyota Licenses WiTricity Patent Portfolio for Wireless Power | Business Wire

 

Putting developing-market expectations on a maturing-market will inevitably bring disappointment.

It's not realistic to think each generation will bring major improvements without something actually changing. You can only squeeze so much out of a design. The engine/battery approach will only take clean & efficient so far. There's nothing left to prove either; real-world results ended all misconceptions.

The next step is engine/battery/plug... which Toyota already has a huge industry lead on. No other automaker is working so hard to squeeze out so much out of so little. Dropping in a larger battery-pack is easy. Getting a large return from a capacity of just 4.4 kWh is quite a challenge... but that's exactly what's needed to not compromise on efficiency, handling, comfort, and cost.

Thinking people will suddenly embrace high-capacity batteries is futile. They won't, period. Look at the computer & device industry. Large solid-state drives are clearly superior to traditional hard-drives, yet they are still far from standard. People don't care how much more robust, faster, and efficient they are. The cost just plain doesn't justify that. So, the best to hope for a high-volume market penetration with much smaller capacity solid-state on common tablets for now... however, that is a sign of maturing.

Seeing the plug-in Prius emerge as an affordable choice, an option actually competitive with traditional vehicles is what we should hope for. We'll obviously see design gains from the regular Prius. But those will contribute to mainstream expansion and the reduction of guzzlers. The push into new territory comes from adding a plug.

Watch as the term "hybrid" fades away. That's when you'll know it happened.

 

oops, duplicate post

 

I wonder if there's a safe way of doing direct contact charging, like a scale electric car. If so, this would be a much better solution.

 

There are two primary advantages to non-contact charging.

- It's really safe. There are no contacts, exposed or otherwise, for the user to touch. Manufacturers like that it's really hard to get killed with this technology, even if you're an idiot. That matters. Remember what they say about idiots. Making something idiot proof is really hard because idiots are so clever.

- You don't have to do anything to start the charge. You don't have to unspool a cord, open a charging door, or insert a charging cord and make a connection. You just park the car in the garage, get out, and go inside. So it's good for people who are lazy, which is pretty much everyone to some degree.

There are two primary disadvantages to non-contact charging.

- It's more expensive. The systems are simply more expensive than a simple connector.

- It's less efficient. It requires more conversions of power from one sort into another (usually, though not always), and there's usually a problem of magnetic leakage due to the large air gap.

 

Ultimately, I think the solution of a macbook air magsafe charger could work. Where there is some sort of magenetism that seeks out the charger (only when you want it to) and connects signalling the car its connected and then pulling away when done.

The induction charger is a cool idea, but the inefficiency and expense would be a bit much...now if that had one that went up closer to the car after park OR...a solar roof trickling charge...

 

Autoweek had a brief article on Toyota starting a one year test of Wireless Charging. With possible introduction in about two years.

Toyota tests wireless charging system for plug-in hybrids and pure electric cars - Autoweek

 

Here is the video

 

it's interesting to show Toyota's vision on having it just **outside** on a parking lot where other PiP can take the charge, nature's elements could perhaps destroy it, people could maybe try to take it or sabotage it...

Is Japan that much more trust worthy in the elements and people?

 

Much more difficult to tamper with than the current L2 chargers.

No question it will be more convenient. I am just not willing to spend more money to lower the efficiency.