4th generation coming 2015!

More misrepresentation from someone with a long history of such.

Edmunds.com refuses to show me such a price. It shows me sedans starting at $17k (well, 16.995k), and hatchbacks starting at $20k (19.995). And the MT has lower EPA mpg rating, so your figuring HB utility and MT fun with sedan MSRP and AT MPG is doubly misleading.

 

Ooops. That should have said $16,900 for the Focus Hatchback. (I accidentally typed the pricetag for the Fiesta hatch.)

It amazes me how a lot of Toyota owners hate the non-toyota brands. Everything else is junk. Kinda like how Baltimore fans hate steelers. ;-)

"The automaker suggests that the NiMH's shorter recharge times and better discharge capacity are more advantageous in a hybrid vehicle than the lithium-ion's higher energy density..... it remains confident that NiMH batteries will continue to power its conventional hybrids for at least the next ten years." - LINK: Report: Toyota sticking with NiMH for conventional hybrids

 

Let me get this; you want to compare an Honda Insight to a 3rd gen Prius? Are you serious? The Insight has a passenger capacity of 2 (Listed as a 2 seater) vs a Prius (3rd Gen) which is listed as a midsize and has a capacity for 5 passengers. Aren't you comparing apples to oranges here? 250% passenger capacity, 97 cubic feet, and a true full hybrid design to a Honda mild hybrid design that in later comparable models could barely squeak north of 40 MPG City? This is like comparing a bicycle(Honda Insight) to a Midsize Car(Prius-3rd Gen). Of course the Bicycle will get better mileage but it can't carry anything. The IMA design has been super-ceded by the Toyota's 1rst, 2nd, and 3 rd gen HSD. The benchmark still is the Toyota's 3rd Gen HSD.

 

According to CARB, your Jetta Diesel and all other Diesels cannot acheive a AT-PZEV rating, which is where the 2014 Prius Hybrid is with Smog Score of 9. How are they the cleanest midsize vehicles you can buy? Below is from a year ago.

"The EPA produces a guide called the Green Vehicle Guide, which ranks vehicles on two criteria: air pollution score and greenhouse gas score. Based on a scale of 1-to-10, where ten is the cleanest and one is the dirtiest, Volkswagen’s beloved TDI models all scored 1 on air pollution, while scoring 8 on greenhouse gasses. Jeep’s new diesel Cherokee scored 1 on air and only 4 on greenhouse. Mercedes diesels scored 1/7. Many gasoline-powered vehicles from Toyota, Honda and Ford managed ratings of 9.5 or better in air pollution, while still maintaining 7 or higher on greenhouse gasses. The Honda Insight and Toyota Prius both scored an amazing 9.5/10."

Diesels are an extinct technology that needs to go the way of Dinosaurs.

 

Thats funny; why are you asking that question on a Toyota Thread? Did you expect us to love Hondas and Diesels?

 

That was from over 3 years ago! As it even says in the article; Li-ion have proven to be more efficient than NiMH. (if they do stick with them it is simply a cost issue)

XT1060 ?

 

polo is not the successor of the lupo.... its one class bigger then the lupo and above the polo you have the golf.....
then you also have the fox.. even smaller then the lupo but i geuss in the same class and now we have the UP.

 

If you can beat those numbers, you have a perpetual motion machine.

 

Yes the article about NiMH vs. Lithium batteries is from three years ago, but it also states: "Toyota remains confident that NiMH batteries will continue to power its conventional hybrids for at least the next ten years." So in other words until 2020.

And of course the reason NiMh is preferred (shorter recharge times and better discharge capacity) has not changed. Read more: http://priuschat.com/threads/4th-generation-coming-2015.117745/page-77#ixzz2osi9vidS

 

Please define "better discharge capacity"

 

I have no clue. Read the report yourself, and maybe you can puzzle-out what the Toyota spokesman meant: Report: Toyota sticking with NiMH for conventional hybrids

 

You can make high power or high density li-ion battery, having both is impossible. For EV and consumer electronics we are seeing high energy density, but rather low power rating in the range of 1-2 C.

A Prius 1.3 kWh battery must be capable of 20C for a short time and 10C continuous. There is no theoretical limit in creating such a li-ion battery, but this means that the cells are not consumer grade cells (like Tesla) but something of a rarer cells not mass produced. This means a higher price, nothing else.

From a emissions stand point I'm wondering if we will see a DI in next gen Prius. Toyota is selling Lexus IS300h with DI for European market, but funny thing is ES 300h for US market that was just introduced doesn't use DI. Why is that?

 

Nmih proved itself and the factory is i geuss payedoff so its cheaper to just put in those batterys
also litium still needs to prove itself as a automotive battery for the long run 10+ years.
whats DI??

 

Direct injection. There were a lot of recent articles about nano particle emissions supposedly more dangerous than "bigger" diesel particles.

 

The article you site is from 2010.

At that time, Toyota was supporting and defending the Next Gen Prius being released with NiMH batteries.
Even though the article does state that Toyota believes that NiMH batteries would power their "conventional" hybrids for the next 10 years, that's an easy statement to make in 2010 when you've just released the Next Gen, WITH NiMH batteries. You want to sell those vehicles at that time.

It's an easy reality to back away from, if you decide at any time to go to Lithium Ion.

Am I sure what the timeline will be? It probably depends on factors I barely have any connection to, or idea about. Maybe as mundane as whether Toyota thinks production of "whatever" battery can meet demand.

I think the future, is clearly Lithium Ion not only for The PiP (as today) or full electrics, but for "conventional hybrids". Whether we see this as soon as Gen 4, in 2015 or in 2020 or sometime in between I have no idea.

But I fully believe that should I own my 2013 Prius...in 2023, my battery will be considered old generation. Sooner or later NiMH is yesterday.

 

What batteries were in the pre-production PiPs?

 

Ok. I remember the the floor used to stick up in the back to cover them.