4th generation coming 2015!

I agree that is small statistical sampling, but Honda was sued successfully for false hybrid claims in California. I hope Honda does not go the Ford route and try and force the EPA to change their mileage to suit them?

 

Disagree....
It will bring doubt in the mainstream about any hybrid that isn't a Prius...and probably rightly so.

 

Five reports? Not statistically relevant yet. Not only that, but its winter. I drive one mile to work in a Prius, in Chicago, and my current tank is at 160 miles and an average of 30mpg. Yet, my own car is capable of doing much more than 50mpg in better conditions. But that's low mile driving and winter weather for you. Totally throws off the averages. Looks like most of the Accord drivers are getting way better than I am right now. Good for them, and good for Honda. I wouldn't trust the Fuelly reports until well into the 3rd quarter of next year when the warmer weather can average the figures in a more realistic way.

 

We were talking about Fuelly.com just two months ago. Someone put their car stats into Fuelly in early October. Well, Honda did not sell any until Halloween. So that guy did it by mistake, or a jerk on purpose.

 

the prius is not the right car for everyone. my first hybrid is a 2012 camry and we compaired it to the prius and thought it was so much better. it has so much power and drives great on the freeway even loaded down. now we loved it so much that I got a prius c for all the in town driving I have to do and my wife drives out of town to work so she gets the camry.

I guess my point is, its important for hybrids to succeed, because this will lower our fuel needs and also reduce pollution. So I hope honda, ford, chevy ect are able to build hybrids. This will also move toyota to build better hybrids. so every hybrid that turns out to be great will have a positive affect on the future and every flop will also have a negitive affect. Thats my opinion.

 

On the bigger picture you are right, the less oil we use, the better it is for our planet.

As you well know, the 3rd gen HSD Patents are to expire in early 2014. The 4th gen HSD is to be introduced in the 4th Gen Prius. I'm sure Ford, GM, and others will trying to buy these up and reverse engineer the 3rd gen HSD. For those MFGs who are behind the eight ball on Hybrid technology, this is the most effective way to go to cut R&D.

Honda's IMA Hybrid design was called a mild hybrid or a partial hybrid. It was not a full hybrid design hence the MPG differentials from the Toyota HSD. Honda's newest design in the 2014 Accord, from my view point was to skirt around the Toyota 3rd gen HSD patents. It is a good concept, but time will tell. Honda's original IMA design cost them in court for their mileage claims. In my opinion, Ford reverse engineered Toyota's 2nd gen HSD for the 2013 Fusion and C-max hybrids. As an engineer myself, reverse engineering comes with tradeoffs( ie: Windows 3.0 vs 90's Apple Macintosh OS).

I am excited that the 4th gen HSD will be here and that the evolution continues.

 

First gen patents would expire. Gen2 and gen3 advancements are yet to expire.

 

Alex Dykes (Truth About Cars) explained in a review of the Ford Fusion that Toyota and Ford cross licensed hybrid technology so each of them could develop their drivetrains. Ford and Toyota hybrid drivetrains share no common parts with each other. Did Ford reverse engineer HSD? He did not make it sound like that.

 

Of course he wouldn't! Neither would Bill Gates or the Russians. Reverse Engineering is part of industrial espionage. Now that the 3rd gen patents on HSD are expire, these fore mentioned companies will scoop them up and reverse engineer it to make a quasi copy.

 

Nice grill block.

 

Except the 700-mile Honda Insight G1, or the 960-mile VW Lupo 3L/100km (80 combined MPG). Toyota needs to be careful not to run-afoul of the FTC for false claims.

 

Actually it didn't cost them anything, because the judge found Honda "not guilty" in the appeals court. The judge ruled that Honda had followed the EPA mileage tests, and they complied with the law.

Also I wouldn't call the IMA design "flawed" when I look at the numbers I get (see below). I've rented a Prius G3 and only scored 65 mpg...... far short of what Honda's IMA has given me.

 

We have had interaction with Team Toyota. That IS part of Toyota....a global company. My bet it that attention IS paid to what is said here. Toyota would be foolish to NOT pay attention. Do I think Akio Toyoda logs in everyday? No. Is it possible he has never heard of Prius Chat? Sure....but my guess is plenty of entities within the company known as Toyota DO pay attention to commentary within this active and vital site.

During the last launch of the Gen 3 quite a bit of back and forth feedback came from Toyota Prius Team USA and this site.

Maybe I'm being naive but I have suppressed hopes that if I complain enough they'll never make another Prius c "Game Of Life" commercial.

Don't take that away from me.

 

I do not doubt the commercials are designed in the US, it is the cars I suspect of being Japanese designs.

 

Toyota could probably crack 50 MPG is they switched to a 3 cylinder engine. That's the secret to my Honda insight's very high MPG.

The new Euro 6 standards require diesels to trap particles (ditto the U.S. emission standards). What that means is the a trap-equipped diesel actually emits LESS soot than a gasoline car (which has no trap). In about 10 years I expect to see 150,000 mile diesels with perfectly-clean exhaust pipes, while the gasoline cars' pipes will be coated with a fine black dirt.

 

Rewriting history? Toyota never "passed" because they never met the stated goal of the PNGV program which was 70 miles/gallon highway. Toyota's Prius was nowhere near the desired goal (and still isn't), whereas GM created the 80 mpg Precept, Ford created the 72 mpg Prodigy, and Chrysler created the 72 mpg ESX-3 (Dodge Intrepid prototype). Honda and Volkswagen actually sold cars that got 70 and 80 mpg (respectively). Toyota never met the PNGV goal.

Oh and before people get defensive: Corporations are just things. I have no love (or hate) for one or the other..... anymore than I feel love for a rock or a tree or a building. I just like to correct historical errors when I see them.

 

Honda's original Insight had an aluminum body... which obviously gave it a weight advantage... but was too expensive to be profitable. It was also a teeny, tiny car compared to the current Prius.

Toyota delivered something to consumers, Detroit didn't.

That milestone was passed by Toyota, an achievement years ahead of those others. Whether or the the final goal comes into play is moot.

Would you prefer the term "lapped" instead?

 

Way to miss the main point.

Honda, VW, GM, Ford, et cetera are the subpoints. The MAIN point in my previous post is that the 1998 Prius came NOWHERE near the desired goal of the PNGV program (70mpg). You cannot make the claim that Prius "passed" when in fact if failed to achieve the goal. Like a student only getting 50% when he or she actually needs 70% to remain in college.

The student did not pass.

 

No.
If you buy a car for $20,000 and drive it 300,000 miles (yes it is easily doable) then you've spent 6 and a half cents per mile. In contrast if you buy a car for $20,000 and trade it in for ~$5000 at 100,000 miles, then you've spent 15 cents per mile.

So about double the expense. For me it's the difference between $6.50/day and $15/day. ($1700/year versus $4000/year.) Not "all" of us want to pay an extra ~2000 dollars in annual operating costs just to get new stuff. We prefer to drive the car til it starts to fall apart, as it cuts costs to the lowest possible point.

 

but some of us do like driving new cars.