4th generation coming 2015!

Your retort to my comment is fair at face value. Iwas attempting to be somewhat kind towards a previous post that suggesting if the PIP price was lowered 20%, "everyone would want one."

I am anxiously looking forward to seeing how much the "target" moves when the G4 is finally introduced. I cannot detect much improvement since the 2010 was introduced, unless you include the PIP. But with the additional purchase price, and only 13 miles of electric only travel before it reverts to a "normal" Prius ..... I could not consider that a good value for my circumstances here in the mountain west.

 

We all await that. After all, there is no way of knowing how much of a MPG improvement for HV will come. But the market mentally is it must be substantial, even though that isn't actually associated with any particular quantity. They expect more for the same price... even if the rest of the vehicle is improved across the board. Despite the reality of diminishing, people want to see a bigger number.

Targeting the middle is quite a challenge. Of course, playing the game isn't too difficult. If you stick to balance, raising the bar later on things like capacity is way easier than trying to squeeze out cost-reductions. After all, we've seen that approach successfully used time after time in the computer industry.

Sadly, stuff like faster warm-up speed will go overlooked by most. The efficiency related to blending likely won't get squat for attention either. But at least we do have things to look forward to. People simply don't have a background. They don't understand how the system works.

For me, I get excited every time I see the reaction on people's faces when they discover that recharging is a simple matter of plugging in the charger to an ordinary household outlet. That is obviously a major misconception currently impeding growth progress. When I tell them the resulting MPG, their first question of range becomes a non-issue.

 

+1.

In my 2005, the car drive like crap since day one. Crosswind scare all the time as well as crappy handling.

I did even less an upgrade than springs/tires. Did a swap of the cheap KYB shocks/struts since it had 130k miles already, the car transformed to no more crosswind scare, nor tires screaming on turns. It is actually fun to drive now.

Toyota actually did a GREAT DISSERVICE to the Prius brand by putting up cheap shock/spring. Just the simple shock/struct swap fixed most of what Toyota stunk at.

 

That is important ..... if it works for you. I do not have exposure to many people that would react to the reality of plugging in, that you describe.

In the next model year or two, I will replace my 2010 G3 Prius. It has, and continues to serve me well. I read this thread every day hoping that Toyota will release a little more information about what is coming. I have a brand loyalty to Toyota, but not to the extent that if I discover a better value elsewhere I will buy another Prius. There are a number of promising models out there. I am anxious to see what Toyota comes up with.

 

How do they react?

 

Not to nitpick...but some people routinely get 17+ miles of EV.

 

I see no situation where the subject of plugging into a conventional electrical socket would even come up. There are 7 (conventional) Prius, plus a Hybrid Camry and an Insight, in my community of 113 homes. The vehicles (Prius) are so common-place, they draw little attention, comment and generate very few questions.

 

That doesn't answer the question though. You just pointed out the topic wouldn't be come up.

How would the MPG info be responded to?

What are there expectations (current and Gen 4) ?

 

Suspension tuning is certainly low on the list for Japanese imports.

 

If the topic (plugging into a conventional wall socket) (and that is what we are talking about) has not come up in the past, and unlikely will in the future, I have no way to knowing what their response would be. And frankly, you don't know how little I care what it would be.

If you read back several pages, you will see a discussion about MPG and the fact that it is not always the "bottom line" in making a car decision. It is important, but not "ALL important." Ride, comfort, repair history, interior finishes, exterior appearance, performance, ease of entry, ground clearance, agility in deep snow, initial purchase cost, and on and on ... are all to be considered. The G3 Prius was a great combination in my judgement of all of the above, and has achieved an overall average of over 52 mpg. That, in my mind ... is very commendable. My 2010 has proven itself over and over to have been a great purchase decision.

Now Toyota is reportedly going to release a G4. We have no idea when (2014 or 2105), or what it will look like. We don't know if it will have a "flying bridge," we don't know what it's EPA rating will be; we don't know how much it will cost. When the times comes to make a purchase decision, I, along with the rest of the buying public, will evaluate my criteria mentioned above, and make a decision.

Just to give an idea of my priorities (if anyone even cares) ...... I would not give up a seat for additional milage; I would not opt for additional milage if the exterior looked like the depictions that have been posted; I would not trade the current performance (acceleration, hill climbing, and cruising speed) for additional 10 MPG. Those are my priorities, otherwise I would consider a Volt, or a Fusion or a Camry. OTOH, if I only owned 1 car, I doubt it would be a Prius, because the other criteria would have an elevated importance. How about we move-on.

 

Agree with you 90%. The 4th gen will have to be an improvement. The talk about 4-wheel drive, losing the ability to seat 5...kind of backwards. If they do 4-wheel drive that's great as long as you can switch to 2 and gain mpg.

Radical designs would also be a turn off, it really depends what they come up with.

 

Not sure you can accurately make a blanket statement like this. How is it the latest and greatest? Performance? Yes, it beats the Prius. All of them. Seating? No. Luggage room? No.

And of course then we get to the all important fuel economy subject....
Remember, the Volt is only best for a small segment of drivers that fit a pretty stringent commute mileage total.

 

Good comments.

I'm curious. Chevy has introduced a clean turbo diesel hybrid Cruze. Price is below $25k; 26 City/46 MPG Highway (EPA). Has anyone test driven one? Any reaction? That just might be a winning combination that could impact not only the Prius, but the Volt as well. AND ..... it does not have a "flying Bridge" that so many complain about.

Car and Driver reports:
"The foundation of the Cruze diesel is the Euro-standard iron-block, aluminum-head four-cylinder with a steel crankshaft and aluminum pistons with a compression ratio of 16.5:1. The diesel juice is piped in at just over 23,000 psi via the common fuel rail and piezo injectors. Although torque peaks at 264 lb-ft at 2600 rpm, 250 lb-ft is available from 1750 to 3000 rpm, and a boot on the pedal brings 280 lb-ft of overboost for up to 10 seconds—the diesel version of IndyCar's “push to pass.” A six-speed automatic is the only available transmission."
"The diesel’s estimated 0-to-60 time of 8.1 seconds puts it nose to nose with the gas-turbo Cruze, although the diesel’s torque feels much richer at part throttle and very solid in the 0-to-40-mph range. We drove one to Indy and back for the 500. On the 292 miles south, we stayed with traffic, much of it at 70 to 80 mph, and our average with a few stops, including the Auburn Cord Duesenberg Automobile Museum in Auburn, Indiana, was an indicated 44.9 mpg. Heading back to Detroit on the freeway, we once again began monitoring estimated fuel economy with the car’s trip computer. During the first 40-mile stretch at a boring 55 mph, we saw a

Prius-like 58.4 mpg, followed by another 30 miles at 65 mph for a still-impressive 53.9 mpg, and a more satisfying 20 miles at 75 mph and 43.4 mpg. A 30-mile off-freeways-through-towns stretch brought 43.1 mpg."​

 

I am willing to compromise on EV range but not a seat, less cargo space, lower gas MPG, higher emission, or increase weight and recharge time.

To me, more EV range is an exotic technology that require many compromises of other practical things. EV range is just a slice of the pie.

I was eyeing on C-Max Energi, but the moment I saw the cargo space and the hit in CS MPG, I knew PiP was the best balanced plugin of this gen.

 

"In time" yes, but in the meantime they are living with the "compromise" until such time as there is a willingness/ability to spend a bunch of money for the upgraded technology ......... which might occur every 4-5 years.

Wishful thinking: Wouldn't it be great if, as the technology improved, there could be upgrades. Software manufacturers routinely make available upgrades and corrections. (I know that Toyota did provide a software adjustment to correct for unwanted acceleration issue several years ago).

Today, every technological advancement is purposely made so that it will not fit in the obsolete older device. I bought a new computer. The very simple power plug is different from the same, but older model. Ink cartridges for many new printers will not fit in older models. Wheels have a slightly different bolt spacing. Newer components, have different hole patterns, different connectors, or physical obstructions to prevent them being inserted into the vacated space of an older unit. Try going into a auto parts retailer and walking out with the correct component for a specific model car. (the catalogue will show a myriad of footnotes, coding an assortment of variations) Planned obsolescence? Improved technology? Marketing a new need that everyone "must have." All seem part of the equation. It is a difficult environment for any manufacturer. Toyota has done very well in the past. It will be interesting to watch how it works for them in the future.

 

What if it was Toyota that made a car matching the Volt in all respects? I wonder how many positions would change with only a change of the maker label on the exterior.

You point is valid, so I'm not taking issue with the post. But to me, the biggest Volt drawback is GM history and the aspect of supreme importance is reliability. As small as the segment you claim that applies to the Volt, I'm pretty sure that it will be the long term reliability of the Volt that is the biggest factor to worry (or not worry) about. The real big swing motivator from US to Japanese cars over the long haul has been reliability. I still think that is in play here, especially since the Prius is so dang good in that category. That is where the real Volt improvement has to be to end up as a long term Prius competition. I'm watching to see.

 

Reputation is factor not to be taken lightly; however, the balance Toyota strived for with Prius has been a major sales draw. GM made compromises with Volt which soured the appeal for everyday consumers. Watch how the upcoming generation changes to draw middle-market interest. People have given Toyota quite a bit of grief for the way Prius looks, but there's no denying the midsize hatch is remarkably practical.

Ordinary purchase priorities shouldn't be pushed aside in favor of squeezing out range or power that really isn't necessary. That will result in enthusiast sales. It isn't what you do when making a product for the mainstream, on that is expected to deliver business-sustaining profit.

Hopefully, GM learned its lesson and we can just write off this attempt as a rough start. Watch what the other automakers do. Ford is especially noteworthy; seeing how their Energi models catch on will tell us a lot about potential market opportunity. Toyota will obviously be closely watching.

 

I think the pillars of Prius are low emission, high efficiency, practicality, mass-market capable, and high-tech (non-exotic). Toyota will not make Volt because it violates these 5 pillars of Prius.

Volt:

• Increases emission overall (tailpipe and upstream)
• Increases so much weight that affects other attributes (3,780 lbs for a compact car will never happen)
• Increases cost due to exotic technology (expensive battery - The original Prius didn't use aluminium frame, instead used mainstream steel)
• Reduces practicality (less interior space, give up a seat)
• Reduces synergy (the last thing you want is both propulsion systems reducing each other's efficiency)

 

Toyota has told us that thermal-efficiency is a major focus for Gen 4. That will translate to even more efficient blending... an even better synergy between battery & engine... something GM has fiercely avoided.

That approach difference cannot be taken lightly. It forces GM's to depend upon a much larger battery-pack... which presents them with a variety of challenges Toyota does not have.