4th generation coming 2015!

Seems to be the case in other markets also.

 

Take the higher cost of bigger/better batteries in a plug in out of the equation...what would be a rough idea of cost of the other elements that make it a plug in?

 

Cheap batteries benefit everyone, the market is so big, it's just waiting for a price drop to jump in... Same with solar cells

Alan.. Sent with Tapatalk 2

 

I am still a year away from replacing my 2010, but right now, I am leaning away from Lithium. I have no interest in an EV, or a PIP. The NiMh has served me very well. I like the fact that it charges in minutes; I like that it has a history of longevity (150,000-185,000 miles and more); I like the minimal space it requires; I like that it has a trouble free history (fires). All that suggest to me that it will be pretty hard to beat. Who knows what this year will bring?

 

The NiMh is basically designed to recapture regenerated power from the wheels and return that power to the engine, there's not much storage capacity needed.
In fact as you probably know you can go only about a mile or less on the EV charge at around 16 miles per hour or less . If you put a similar capacity lithium battery in I'm sure it would charge quickly too!

Bigger battery capacity will always make the basic regen cycle more efficient. By being bigger you also get abilities to charge and get a "head start" on the process by using shore power rather than gasoline.

Of you had a pip and "never" plugged in, your gas mileage would be quite improved over the present smaller capacity NiMh system.

Let's not confuse what I'm saying.
I have nothing against NiMh technology per Se, other than it takes up far too much space to get decent capacity to improve today's simple hybrid prius.

So the answer is the denser lithium.

NiMh is inferior in many ways, otherwise they would not have to "exclude" 40 percent + of the battery capacity from use. An expensive payment when more capacity is needed "not" less.

The existing prius is a fine machine, but to move further in this challenge to be more efficient, I just don't see NiMh in the picture.

Alan.. Sent with Tapatalk 2

 

Maybe we should think about making a new thread called Lithium vs. NiMH: Fight!

 

A web article wrote Ford C-Max hybrid uses new Lithium technology and gets an epa rating of 47/47/47 mpg while Prius v is still using outdated Nimh technology resulting in lower mpg.

 

A few months ago i read that Toyota had a new atkinson cycle engine ready for future hybrid projects. The new engine was said to be 45% efficient compared to 38% for todays Prius.

 

According to Consumer Report, they could not duplicate the 47/47/47. It appears Ford got those numbers the easy way.

 

I read the new engine's thermal efficiency was up to 42.5%, but sure hope they in fact reach 45%.

With the Nimh patent expiration in 2014, any speculation about a bigger and improved Nimh battery in the next gen Prius(If it is going to be Nimh), and also how about paddle shifters like in the GS 450h and Toyota NS4 for manual regen.

Cadillac ELR Regen: Cadillac ELR gets regenerative braking on demand via shift paddles [video] - YouTube

 

Probably sounds that way but we are all speculating over what's coming out or the best angle to smash the competition.

Toyota is improving their engine which is good but probably cost a tad to retool and die existing molds.

So beit, but I fear they will turn around and shoot themselves on the foot by holding on to older battery technology... Whole tried and true for what it does, I'm afraid it's too limited to toss the old wine into new wineskins if they expect to have a new party to celebrate new end roads.

I'm offended that the likes of the Volt tries to compete by majoring on new lithium technology while the rest is vastly inferior to what Toyota has going on.

But because the leader "Toyota" is dragging their feet on putting in a serious capacity battery in their cars the competition is raising eyebrows by doing so, even though the quality and complexity of workmanship doesn't compare.

That's the problem with interdependent systems... The chain is only as strong as the weakest link, or river the smallest bottleneck.

I really don't want to be the party pooper and throw cold water on what's coming.

But I do grow weary with excitement over hype and higher prices with little to show for it.

I think of Toyota as the "idol", the one who sets the mark, the leader of the pack.... I went to Detroit, even got the T shirt "Prius Genius... Lol".
I've been a passionate supporter for years... But I'm Not going to follow a religious party just because of what was or just an idea of what they stand for or because it's my identity. Where's the beef?

I expect a lot from an idol.

I'm presenting a challenge to change the world and the way we think about transportation.....

I believe they can or I wouldn't be ranting.
They are enjoying their success too much and becoming fat and lazy.

I want more... In the last 10 years there just hasn't been that much improvement.

The rest of the world is catching up and surpassing in some cases.


Alan.. Sent with Tapatalk 2

 

Plug-ins aside, for regular hybrids, if Prius v is up by 4 mpg on C-Max hybrid+Li-ion and "37 or 38 mpg"? please give more of that old Nimh technology.

 

I don't think it's about the NiMh, it's the superior prius synergistic drive system.

That's what I keep trying to relate at least.
Put the NiMh in the C-Max and see how it degrades.

Or conversely, put the prius drive system in the C-max and it may surpass the prius.

Alan.. Sent with Tapatalk 2

 

That blue car artist rendition making the rounds isn't even close.

 

Ooooh, it sounds like Dianne may have an inside track on some info.....please do tell. Even hints are fine if you can't tell us anything outright.

 

No fair, that's like throwing a piece of meat in a Bunch of chickens and then Goin back to the porch to watch the fun.

Alan.. Sent with Tapatalk 2

 

Dianne, You have a very loyal following here on PriusChat as being completely credible. That said, I can easily understand that IF, you have information, you well could have been sworn to secrecy. But know that there are many of us that are very anxious.

Was the "blue car artist rendition" the one with the deep notch between the hood and the windshield?

 

Lol!

Alan.. Sent with Tapatalk 2

 

The rumors are nimh in the base gen IV prius, lithium in the plug in.

Somehow people are buying some long bs that nimh are more efficient than lithium. Its just not so, as you know. The ford's use lithium cells similar to that in the toyota alpha. Toyota are just being conservative sticking with the older tech.
As for numbers
Compare Side-by-Side

The prius v is more aerodynamic that the c-max and has smaller lower rolling resistance tires. The c-max loses on self reporting by 1.2 mpg. The fusion hybrid beats the self reported camry hybrid by 1.3 mpg, on more similar packages of rolling resistance and drag, although the camry should be slightly more slippery.

Drop that ford drive train into a prius liftback and you likely would hit 60 in just over 7 seconds. I'm guessing if you hooked it up to toyota's cooled egr and ehr system you might beat the mileage at the same time. C-max has much higher drag and rolling resistance than the liftback. Lithium although superior is not going to make up for that.