4th generation coming 2015!

We have super capacitors, but lithium batteries are less expensive today. Toyota uses super caps in their hybrid race car because the rules won't allow them to take advantage of a battery. Racing R&D should help bring costs down. That is only a 0.15 kwh super cap for regen braking and acceleration, but you need electronics to put the power into, or take it out of the battery too.

A supercap that size would weigh about 5-30 Kg, but you might be able to reduce the other battery size and weight. You can then size your battery for energy instead of power.

 

Here is some better information
Supercapacitor Information – Battery University
Useful life and capacity loss are better than batteries.

The problem is cost. Its about $3000 for that 0.15 kwh supercap I was talking about if it was put in production cars, versus say less than $100 for a battery of that same capacity. It has high self discharge so you need electronics and a battery to move the charge into it and out of it. In a race car the time between charge and use is small.

 

The rear electric motor (MGR) is probably tuned for high torque / low rpm which would be the opposite of MG1 with high speed / low torque.

MGR for Lexus RX and Highlander hybrid is air cooled (I believe passive). I remember reading that being the reason why the application is limited (not much towing capability). Adding fancy active cooling to that would just cost more and add weight.

 

Wow 4 wheel drive option for the snow belt crowd, 10 MPG improvement 60/60 MPG, 22 Mile range on the PIP, lower with better styling, narrow rear, new pantents. Can't wait.

 

Hmm... did anyone notice that he said the powertrain and hybrid system will be smaller?

So 2015 might get back the 1.5L size engine with more power and efficient then? Plus 4wd, sweet.

 

sorry guys, but this article is made up... new car is coming in 2014, not 2015. M&T Blogs put a lot of made up stories, pretty much everything i ever read there.

There was another thread about US Toyota planning chief making comments about the design and the fact that car is coming out in 2014 (as it should be, 5 year cycle).

 

Both sets of rumors have been out 2014 and 2015. There seems to be a flury of these different look rumors which makes the 2015 seem plausible. If toyota is still getting input on the look, they sound behind a 2014 schedule.

 

it is not a rumor when a one of the Toyota heads says it.

besides i would think that the crap about 4WD and other obviously bogus and made up info from MT blog would be telling.

 

Would like to see this car unveiled by spring of 2014, start the ordering process by June, delivery and availability in the fall of 2014 as a 2015 model, 2 years from now.

 

I previous posted the official rumor of by 2015 and US production of the gen IV.
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120430/OEM01/304309976
I never saw any official announcements of 2014. Can you post the announcement? Really to me it does not mater much if its end of 2014 or begining of 2015. The important thing is they get it right.

This is clearly a list of possibilities, what I would call rumors. AWD has been one of those rumors for awhile. I would not take anything in the motortrend blog as official other than that there will be a gen IV prius and phv.

 

I'm not believing much from this article. And, why would info such as all this be reported 3 years in advance? If real, Toyota just laid their cards down on the table before the call. Either someone at Toyota is in big trouble, or its bogus.

 

There may have been a hint of a latent control law change in some of the early ZVW30 data:

When I first saw this data, the double hump distribution of 30 EPA samples had me confused. It was as if there were two, ZVW30s reported to the EPA web site. Perhaps the small sample set, 30, or perhaps the PriusChat members are better at getting consistent results. But it remained a puzzle.

To test the methodology hypothesis, I used PriusChat metrics on indicated and actual mileage:

Well at least there is a basis for a double humped distribution but when combined, it had this flattened aspect. Lacking any other hypothesis, I left the double-hump as a combination of small sample set and methodology, the difference between indicated and actual MPG.

But when we plotted MPG versus mph from PriusChat data, we got this curious curve and data points:

Now there are some interesting 'above the curve' outliers that I assumed were hypermilers . . . and that may still be the case. But lately I've noticed that strict keeping to low rpm range in our two Prius, NHW11 and ZVW30, seems to put us in the 'outlier' areas. Could it be that simple?

There are hints that improved control laws might improve MPG even greater . . . as long as they give Consumer Reports auto reviewers the magic digit. Toyota already has three-mode, accelerator settings. Making "ECO" a little more including 'efficient driving' with load-leveled, cruise control (aka., slight slow down on climb,) and I can easily see 60 MPG becoming the new owner normal.

In contrast the C-MAX has only one accelerator mode, PWR, and though it has a lot of 'response', the twitchy accelerator response may be the problem with efficient driving.

There are other, low-hanging technologies out there:

• variable phase valves - wider range of high efficiency(?)
• direct fuel injection - improved vaporization(?)
• wider Atkinson range - larger power stroke ratio(?)
• dry transaxle lubrication - reducing transaxle drag(?)
• reduced electric path ratio - increasing mechanical path(?)
• cooler engine operating range - a 5-10C reduction in operating temps(?)

Some hint of this may be found in the 'prius c' but I've yet to look at the EPA and Fuelly distributions. Regardless, it promises to be an interesting wait for the next generation.

Aviation went through a series of distinct 'step' functions that had to build upon the work of others:

• Wrights integrated aerodynamics, power, and control to achieve flight
• biplanes gave way to monoplanes and suddenly speeds nearly doubled
• fixed pitch props gave way to constant speed because the monoplanes could reach speeds where it made sense
• ambient air induction gave way to turbo-chargers for higher altitudes and speeds
• piston engines gave way to turbo-jets for supersonic speeds and distances
• manual flying is giving way to fly-by-wire making safe flying wings, zero-zero and pilotless flying possible

Each advance plateaus performance for a while until the next advance comes along. It is entirely possible that something we don't know is being 'cooked up' in the car labs. A better mix of existing technologies making possible the next advance.

Bob Wilson

 

Again, I am quoting you what Toyota USA said in investor phone call few days ago. There is nothing rumorish about it.

You wont get "official" info 3-4 months before they are at dealers.

 

So you are quoting an official rumor. If it is real official information Toyota would have it available on their website. What month did they say the gen IV prius in the US? If they just said 2014, they likely meant the 2014 fiscal year which ends in March 2015.

Investor phone calls are notorious for slips as they usually are optimistic. The official rumor, which toyota put out there for people to print, I had quoted back in may said by 2015. That means to me they are promising by the end of 2015, but if things go right it will make 2014. There is no way if this thing hasn't even been agreed upon in clay that they will make the beginging of 2014. My best guess from the leaks is September 2014 - March 2015 depending on what they decide goes in the car

IMHO it is better if they take time to get the platform right and improve handling for more mass appeal, than hit an arbitrary date. A later date also makes it more likely that they change their minds and switch to lithium. Toyota had said nimh in the past, now they are answering no comment.

 

I'm sure 4wd will be an option and not a cheap one, won't it?

 

I don't think it will be expensive Its a $1400 option on the Lexus RX. But in typical Toyota fashion they will likely make you buy an expensive package with stuff you don't want to get it. That is if it actually makes the car.

I know my cousin in upstate NY thought about a prius, but lack of 4wd stopped her.

 

Yep, one of the few complaints my wife has about the Prius is lack of 4WD. Even if the Prius implementation is 3/4rths of the function of a standard mechanical AWD that will be good enough.

 

I'm sure the 4WD system will be similar to what they put in the RAV4, which is really just an AWD system on demand. It does somewhat work, but not sure if I would pay for that premium again.

That said, I wouldn't let the lack of 4WD/AWD on the Prius scare your wives, I would actually recommend a good set of snow tires instead (as it also improves the stopping / handling).

BTW, I live near Oswego NY, so I do have some experience with the white stuff

I personally look forward to the improved mileage on the PHV, but by then, there will be more plug-ins on the market, and I wouldn't be surprised if they offer more bang for the buck (just look at the new C-Max, Volt, etc.).

I specifically leased my PiP instead of buying it for this reason, as we all know there will be a lot more choice available in 3 years.

 

Hope a larger optional battery is offered beside the standard plug-in battery range. Also any chance of a bigger Nimh battery in the regular Prius with the Nimh Patent expiration as of 2014.

 

I lived in Buffalo, NY. I have some experience with snow, too.

While I know your advice to rely on snow tyres is spot on, we currently live in an area that has problem days for our Prius perhaps at most a week of the year. I find it hard to accept poorer fuel economy all winter season in case a few of those days come along. For now we just use our AWD Subaru on those days. When the Subaru is gone, an on-demand 4WD Prius sounds perfect.