4th generation coming 2015!

Well supposedly Dianne saw the prototype as far back as late 2013 or so...then there was the Vegas showing...

And toyota did have a good way to garner customer feedback before. Remember 2010 about a full year after gen 3 release they started testing the pip with A select few individuals

 

After finding out that the NiMH battery can be increased to the same watt hours per weight as the LiIon (BASF Doubles Nickel-Metal Hydride Energy Storage | MIT Technology Review) you'll be seeing those types of batteries in Toyota and Lexus for a loooonnnggg time.

 

Was the alleged dealer "showing," before or after the alleged re-design?

Personally, I am skeptical there was a showing. It is hard for me to believe that not one participant has not come forward, or told a friend something of what he saw. And how could Toyota show some dealers and not all?

 

I would think they all signed non-disclosure agreements.
Can you imagine how much money Toyota is spending to produce the new new Prius? For info like hybrid system design to get leaked to a competitor might be damaging at this point. Toyota doesn't need Ford, GM or Honda to know about Prius now. How Toyota know a 'customer' isn't really an industrial spy, so they can't show anything yet.

 

However, once it (new design) is "patented" it's fair game for internet reading.

 

It is a valid point that a manufacturer must maintain design secrecy. But there comes a point where it would be too late for a competitor to do much about meeting a new design. Suppliers require time to tool up, produce components and configure assembly lines. If you review the automotive magazines, manufacturers are now road testing 2016 and even 2017 designs right now. Remember, it is widely speculated that the G4 was being road tested way back in 2013, based on the test mule pictures that were circulated.

I would imagine there comes a point where configuration details become more important, than the overall design. For example, if one manufacturer offered a navigation system in the base vehicle, or a turbocharged engine, or direct injection, then the competitors would be scrambling to offset that, or include one in their base design. Pricing is a closely guarded secret, as is horsepower figures. And I suppose that now, even EPA mileage expectations are closely guarded; EV range; charing times; battery chemistry, and etc.

Toyota does reveal design details as manifest by a statement I read today about the Camry Special Edition and the Corolla Special Edition that would be shown,(I seem to recall), at the Chicago Auto Show.

Well. We shall see. Some day, I suppose, we will get a "teaser." I just hope there will still be some interest.

 

I suspect there is no car. To be exact they had one, but it was a failer and they had to scramble it.

 

Not sure how to copy and paste links on this new laptop, but go back and read Greencarreports article by John Voelcker about the 2016 Prius. article from Sep 2014. fyi, they are not saying the 4th gen Prius has been scrapped,

 

I meant not that there will be no Gen4, just what they had as Gen4 was scrapped and taken back to drawing board for 2 reasons: 1) didn't hit MPG target 2) overall looks/design

 

sounds like a rush job, i may give it a model year or two.

 

toyota clearly needs to move their primary production to china, then all the people on this board would have their curiosities satisfied thanks to discreet supplier part leaks

 

GM should have done that with the Volt. Worse MPG than the Prius. Leaf is closer to a real competitor.
Although the BOLT looks interesting.

 

Hardly, the gen1 Volt has held its own and this gen2 Volt with expected 50 miles EV range and better looks should sell well.

Do most plugin drivers care all that much about the MPGs when the gas engine is running? I'd think plug drivers buy a plug in to EV, not experience the joys of ICE driving. Volt seems to have the PiP against the ropes on EV range, plus Volt is said to me more spunky to drive.

I'd think Toyota ought to be concerned about the Prius Plugin design. They have only 11 miles EV range on the current one. Even if they make it to 20 miles EV range, that's only 20, not 50. And as I understand, PiP drives like a 'super hybrid': If you hit the gas a bit too much or go on freeway, the ICE will come on. I'm pretty sure Volt drivers just EV down the freeway to work. the Volt will arrive end of this year. Next PiP ot expected til end of next year.

 

I was at an SAE vehicle electrification meeting 2 weeks ago where a senior Toyota hybrid engineering manager visiting from Japan gave a "lessons learned" presentation. He basically acknowledged that US drivers want more electric range and power than the PiP gave them. He put up some graphs which implied that the ideal plugin battery range is around 20-30 miles but he said that needed to be carefully balanced against their other goals on price and usable interior space.

He didn't give much of a hint of where that balance would be found in the next generation PiP.

 

20-30?? Ideal?

Try 50+ for a PHEV.

Better yet 100+...

 

Yeah, it all sounds enticing, but have you ever called Toyota and asked the cost of the current PiP battery? I have and was told PiP Li Ion battery is
on the order of $10,000 (don't recall if that is with a core turn in credit or not).
So, keep in mind these fancy traction batteries are VERY expensive. I wonder what a Volt's battery price tag is. At least Green Car Reports had some positive news that plug in batteries are not losing so much range after getting lots of miles on them 50k, 100k etc ....

 

Why not 200+?

I suspect he was speaking from the perspective of what he thought was within the realm of the possible in the very near future. In other words, don't expect more than 20-30 in the next generation PiP given Toyota's design balancing approach. I doubt that perspective surprises anyone here.

 

If ICE-cars are typically designed for ~400 miles per tank, why can't EV's strive for the SAME range?

 

$10,000 for the PiP's 4.4 kwh pack would be $2,272 per kwh at the pack level which is absurdly too high. The actual cost to Toyota is almost certainly under $1,000 per kwh or probably closer to $700. It's a small pack the costs can't be spread across as many battery cells but that's still in the range of $3,000 to $4,000 per pack.

I've seen estimates that say that Tesla is likely paying $250 or less per kWh at the pack level in the timeframe when the new PiP comes out.

GM will probably be paying something like $400 at the pack level for the 18.4 kwh in the new Volt or around $7,500 total.

Of course, the retail cost to buy a second spare PiP battery today to put on your garage shelf may well be $10,000.