4th generation coming 2015!

"Q: Correct me if I'm wrong, but the current Prius employs the so-called "new MC" mass-produced platform, which is also employed on models from the European Auris to the Corolla to Japan-spec Alphard minivan. That level of versatility means that it still has the potential to lose even more weight. Right?
A: Yes, that's right. We are developing our next generation "C" platform as part of our Toyota New Global Architecture [TNGA] strategy. The top of the range model that will sit on this new platform will be the Prius, which by the way will shed over 150 pounds. And the new THS system means that the engine mounts will be very different to the current car's setup as well."

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/future/future_vehicles/1211_radical_new_toyota_prius_in_pipeline/viewall.html#ixzz2NS0esxAa

"Q: So the four main revisions on the new Prius will be the totally new styling, lower curb weight, a new more compact hybrid system, and a lower center of gravity? Is that about the extent of it?
A: Yes. The body size will change very little to the current car and maintain the present 106-inch wheelbase. Front overhang will decrease by just under 2 inches thanks to the smaller powertrain and hybrid system. But as I said before, the overall styling will change considerably, but it will still be recognizable as a Prius."

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/future/future_vehicles/1211_radical_new_toyota_prius_in_pipeline/viewall.html#ixzz2NS1HPlPg

 

There's a bunch of stuff in this article I haven't seen before. Independent rear suspension? Finally! Get rid of that torsion beam!

"Q: I see. And what about the car's utility?
A: The new version will get a more luggage space, which translates to space for 4 golf bags in Japan. Because of that revision, we are switching rear suspension from the current torsion beam setup to a new double wishbone construction, which will improve the car's all-round stability."

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/future/future_vehicles/1211_radical_new_toyota_prius_in_pipeline/viewall.html#ixzz2NS1t9mBH

"Q: Can you tell me anything more about the new THS system?
A: As I mentioned, several patents will expire in 2013, so several new technologies have been developed to replace those. The current 2ZR-FXE engine will be significantly modified, while the inverter and motor will be downsized but deliver more power."

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/future/future_vehicles/1211_radical_new_toyota_prius_in_pipeline/viewall.html#ixzz2NS2gk3sk

"Note: Expect mileage in the U.S. car to improve from 50 mpg to at least 60 mpg combined"

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/future/future_vehicles/1211_radical_new_toyota_prius_in_pipeline/viewall.html#ixzz2NS3Cj4Bi

 

Boost is controlled by the throttle. Don't open the throttle all the way and you don't get full boost. Since most throttle are fly by wire and computer controlled now, boost would be easy to control.

Car with belt driven superchargers actually run negative boost (less than atmospheric manifold pressure)the large majority of the time.

 

"Q: What kind of performance can we expect from the PHV?
A: In EV mode, it will have a maximum speed of around 62 mph while its range in EV mode will be around 22 miles. As far as mileage goes, we have heard that it will be rated at 112 mpg in Europe with CO2 of 49g/km."

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/future/future_vehicles/1211_radical_new_toyota_prius_in_pipeline/viewall.html#ixzz2NS3VqM7i

"Q: Will the drivetrain stay the same?
A: Good question. Actually, the next Prius will be the first model to get 4WD. The rear wheels will be driven by a motor in what we call an e-4WD system. Targeting snowy areas, the rears will operate up to 37 mph. Above that speed, it becomes a purely front-wheel drive car."

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/future/future_vehicles/1211_radical_new_toyota_prius_in_pipeline/viewall.html#ixzz2NS3ozMWc

 

btw Jimbo, I had not seen the entire Motortrend article before. It answered a bunch of my questions.

 

Nor had I, I have never liked Motor Trend as a data source or a predictor of the future.

If this article is to be believed the base engine stays the same, 1.8 liter. but with improved transaxle.

 

Suspension Question Is 'Double Wishbone' suspension used on new cars anymore? Most basic mfr specs are listed as 'Multi-Link' rear suspensions, but in the 4th Gen Prius interview below, Toyota guy mentions double wishbone. Wikipedia seems to indicate a negative below.

"Q: I see. And what about the car's utility?
A: The new version will get a more luggage space, which translates to space for 4 golf bags in Japan. Because of that revision, we are switching rear suspension from the current torsion beam setup to a new double wishbone construction, which will improve the car's all-round stability."

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/future/future_vehicles/1211_radical_new_toyota_prius_in_pipeline/viewall.html#ixzz2NWzcws8L


In its simplest form, multi-link suspension is orthogonal—i.e., it is possible to alter one parameter in the suspension at a time, without affecting anything else. This is in direct contrast to a double wishbone suspension, where moving a hardpoint or changing a bushing compliance will affect two or more parameters.
Multi-link suspension - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Radical New Toyota Prius in the Pipeline - Motor Trend

 

Most interesting. I was thinking/planning on replacing my 2010 (IV) in the fall of 2013 ..... I may just wait for the 4th generation.

 

I think if my goal were hp-to-weight ratio, I'd just drive my turbo sports coupe.

I think my 04 has suffient power-to-weight ratio loaded with 800 pounds of stuff and driving at 1-2 miles above sea level.

I think a 2,200 pound MR2 hybrid with 180 turbocharged hp and 50 hp boost from a 4 wheel drive electrical system would be a blast to drive, and I doubt I'd buy one.

 

I agree with Brett. The diminishing returns on fuel economy over about 50mpg make striving for 55mpg instead of increasing public appeal is a bad idea. I feel we would save more fuel as a population if the Prius was more appealing to more people. Improving curb appeal and mpg increases price and makes the entire package less appealing to those on strict budgets. So far Toyota has focused on mpg. This lack of attention to interior quality has made me regret the purchase of my PIP. If Toyota does not address the poor interior quality of the GenIV I will be looking at a Volt or similar offering.

The pont is, there are outstanding offerings available to the wealthy who want extreme fuel efficiency. For those less well off you have to make a choice between luxury and fuel efficiency because you're not really going to get both.

 

The focus has clearly been on cost reduction while continuing to deliver 50 MPG.

They delivered that too. Profit is self-sustaining, supporting automaker & dealerships without digging deep into consumer wallets... as 2012 sales/inventory confirm.

That's why cost reduction has been such a high priority.

What components does that refer to? It's difficult to improve without knowing what the requirements should be.

Also, keep in mind that Prius is a car for middle-market. You want nicer, it will come from Camry/Avalon. Want even nicer, choose a Lexus.

 

Other than weak night time dashboard ergonomics, lack of a trash bin in the rear, and the weak paint job I am pretty happy with my 3 gen Prius. If the economy starts heating up again, speculators are sure to push fuel prices up again. Given that there are plenty of expensive hybrids available and only a few affordable hybrids available, I think staying focusing on an affordable and fuel efficiency vehicle is the best way for the Prius line to go. Toyota has handed over its luxury segment to its Lexus brand and its sport segment to Scion. Lexus already offers several luxury hybrid models. Maybe it is time for Scion hybrids? or Maybe someone in Toyota is floating an ideal of a fifth version of the Prius? All I know is that in marketing if you have a successful product/cash cow - you try to keep it alive as long as possible.

 

I've probably mentioned before, but somehow Toyota ought to make the liftback Prius a better highway cruiser.
I know it needs a bit quieter interior at speed.

I was on 280 freeway today where there are rolling freeway hills. I was talking to a friend while driving but noticed my speed dropped to something like 59 MPH, below the pace. I had to give it a fair amount of throttle to pick speed back up. ..
I think I was not in power mode and maybe I should have been.

 

Yep, looking for changes mostly under the hood, a quiet cabin IMO gives a luxury/quality feel.

 

I like this video and think it still applies today. Well Cam Hy still be better all around car than 4th gen?

Toyota vs...Toyota? Camry Hybrid takes on the Prius - YouTube

 

Background argument ....

The above link is to a dated video is comparing the luxury and performance differences between a 2008 2nd gen Prius to a 2008 Camry Hybrid. The above video favors the camry hybrid over the prius. In 2008 the price of regular gas changed very fast and widely from about 1.60 to about 4.00 per gallon. This video was advocating and asking consumer to not just buy based on fuel efficiency where the Prius had no competition but to consider other things as well. Essentially - it was trying to appeal to the consumer that there are other outstanding and more pressing needs or requirements that a consumer should consider..

Theory - Objectives - Methodology ...

Each vehicle is an engineer compromise design to meet a market demand. By their very nature, a compromise can not be all things to all people. What is *better all around* depends very much on your own personal needs. Often it is only by driving and living with several vehicles that most people eventually gets a *feel* of (get in tune/knows) what those personal driving needs are.


The reason - a manufacturer makes an entire line of different models is choose from is efficiently capture the most $$ out of each market (demand) segment. The practice of trying to capture the entire market with only one vehicle was abandon with the Ford Model-T ( Henry Ford was famous for saying that you could get any color on the Model T as long as it was black).

Comparing Apples to Apples....

The Hybrid Camry's is more expensive and it has lower fuel efficiency than a Prius but the Hybrid Camry is focused on the market segment that want quicker acceleration, more passenger space, smoother ride, and more luxuries- cabin appointments. With respect to MRSP and fuel efficiency, the Toyota Camry Hybrid competes more directly/closely with the Ford Fusion Hybrid, Hyundai Sonata Hybrid, Kia optima hybrid, Acura ILX Hybrid Sedan, and the Honda Civic Hybrid.

The 3rd gen Prius Liftback and the 3rd gen Prius c really doesn't have any direct competition

The 3rd gen Prius v (station wagon) competes directly against the Lexus ct200h and the Ford C-max/Energi

The 3rd gen Prius Plug-in gets compared to the Chevy Volt very often but I think both cars are really designed for very different kind of driving environment/trip/mission/challenges. Both are one of a kind cars with no direct competition.

 

And me at a Fusion Hybrid EV and not just interior quality but equipment, stuff like auto dimming mirrors and auto headlights should be standard equipment, power driver seat there's a huge issue for Prius. And tech stuff like a blind spot indicators and cool nav.

 

True, Camry Hybrid base model is about $2k more than Prius 2, but that is less than 10% of the cost.

Also true Prius beats Camry hybrid in cargo flexibility.

But, Prius makes me want to move over to the slow lane when coming up and climbing freeway grades. Yesterday with 4 in the car, got into the slow lane and got to listen to the engine spin up fairly high to maintain low 60's MPH. Prius is much better at flats and downhill than climbing.

Also the difference between 41 mpg and 50 mpg is only 2 gallons after 450 miles and I'll be many don't realize that. Edmunds statement is true - Prius tends to be for those who want to use the least gas (except for Volt).

 

NS4 Pictures from Atlanta Auto Show... in case you have not seen this concept yet:

 

We've seen it. Toyota corporate stated NS4 to be dedicated plug-in hybrid and will not be in Prius family.

"Toyota engineers were challenged to design a new mid-sized concept for potential global market introduction by 2015. The NS4 concept is a dedicated plug-in hybrid, separate from the Prius family, designed with future mobility requirements in mind. "

Toyota | Toyota Reveals NS4 Advanced Plug-In Hybrid Concept

Cool looking car, but I think front and rear entry exit would be a pain on daily basis.

Motortrend interview stated 4th gen prius rear end to be much the same as current gen, but they would break the smooth line from hood to windshield - lower hood line, roof / A pillars come forward, bit more like conventional car. I thought that would increase drag, but article claims will improve aerodyn's.

NS4 gets rid of the split rear window of liftback pri and looks more like a trunked sedan in the rear (whether it has a liftback hatch or trunk lid, shape is similar). Trouble is it seems to reduce cargo room and rear head room unless the back end is stretched, which adds weight.

Look around for the Motortrend interview about 4th gen Prius. I think that is more reliable.

Google Toyota / NS4 to see their press release about NS4.