4th generation coming 2015!

I presume your stats are correct, but they are difficult to use because of confounding deductions and tax credits that are accounted for after the AGI is calculated.

My post was meant to shed a little light on the question of whether families with the *means* to buy the car are likely to also have a federal tax burden high enough to take advantage of the full tax credit. Let's see what happens if we work backwards:

I'll guess that a threshold family is willing to spend up to 20% of discretionary income on the car;
that it has 30k in deductions, and 2k in credits that gain a 50% tax advantage;
spends another 2k a month that is not tax advantaged or discretionary
and that the highest pre-deductions marginal tax is 25%

If the PiP is an $800 a month car, then $4k discretionary is required, = 48k a year
The 30k in deductions is worth 7500 in taxes saved; or with the tax credits, 9,500 total
24k spent annually in non-tax advantaged, non discretionary ways

All together, the AGI minimum required means = 48+30+24+4 = 106k
Taxable income before credits is 76k, which is $10,700 in federal taxes.
So even if the non-car credits are also non-refundable, the threshold family can take advantage of the $7500 current credit in full.

I'm not saying that examples of credit left on the table do not exist, but that they are likely to represent a distinct minority.
A 10k car tax credit would require about a $112k AGI to take full advantage.

Last but not least, the rich and untaxed can always lease.

 

120 pages and continuing ..... and we still have no idea if the "4th generation coming 2015."

But that is not our fault. There have been so many great comments, and thought provoking ideas expressed over these 120 pages. Toyota has denied me one of my pleasures .... that of anticipation, planning, reading and studying about the new model and all the wonderful technical innovations. I enjoy that phase more than the actual purchasing phase.

Alas, I am optimistic the wait will we worth while.

 

Next-gen Toyota Prius to pioneer new hybrid technology

 

"Maybe in the next 5 years."

 

I think the main reason for a "delayed" next gen Prius is electrical storage dilemma (Ni-Mh, Li-ion, solid state, supercap). I'm afraid that in the end Toyota will take a conservative approach, but make it very cheap for the masses as that was the main goal with Prius anyway.

On the other hand they could incorporate some of the LeMans tech in Lexus just to show their muscles against BMW M3

 

I'd prefer sooner rather than later. My 2012 PIP is only sixteen months old. More incentives to wait, works for me. .

 

Imagine being able to recapture 60 times more energy than in a current Prius. The mpg of a regular Prius would give Plug-in Hybrids (mpge) a run for their money. PIP would not need a bigger battery pack after all, especially with e-4wd.

 

What's the current recapture rate for the Prius? And what is it for its competitors like the Volt and Tesla? I remember early news had the Volt coming out without the regen breaks but then they added that in and changed the engine format (from directly serial to something else).

This "Next 5 years" thing is pretty crazy. But I'm assuming that's the 5th gen. Otherwise we're placed in an extension of the next gen prius. What if that guy referred to the "next" gen as the 5th because the current gen 4th will be out soon?

And as for being conservative, Toyota has already declared the new hybrid system lighter and cheaper for over a year now. There might be reason why they stick with NiMh but still maintain 55 mpg and a broader appeal, and the price remaining stable or perhaps dropping a bit.

As for the 2015 model, I refreshed this site: Welcome to Toyota Fleet | Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A., Inc.

Orders are coming in to production which would be available in the fall. But supposedly pricing is available in August. perhaps then is when we'll absolutely know what the heck is going on! I keep wishing, I know

 

Here's another article: Highlights from the 'Car Wars' report

Stating on the horizon for 2016, "the electrified Prius". Is it speaking of the 2016 model year Prius being Gen IV or is it hinting on an all electric Prius (lol Wth in that case). I merely ask because I've heard about the "electric Prius" before because it was the only Hybrid...Now there are electric cars so the term is a little more vague (or specific depending on how you look at it!)

 

Depends on who is driving. About 50% max, as low as zero in the wrong hands.

I know from careful city driving with very little braking that the Prius hits around 80 mpg. Since 'average' driving gets about 50 mpg and might include 20% captured braking, an optimistic but I guess achievable goal is to have super-caps grab half the difference.

That would be ((1/50) - (1/80))/2 = 0.00375 GPM

50 MPG = 0.02 GPM, so a super-capped Prius would improve to (0.02 - 0.00375) = 0.01625 GPM = 61.5 MPG for 'average' people.

 

Sort of.

That brief high-discharge ability would allow PIP gain the ability to exploit the unused capacity of the traction motor. It's rated at 60 kW. The current battery-pack delivers 38 kW.

It other words, there would be increased opportunity to take advantage of the electric system already in place. You could get more power without starting up the engine.

That would raise the bar for what the plug-in model delivers.

 

I want to see Ryden dual carbon battery in Gen4.

 

QUOTE="john1701a, post: 2024340, member: 410"] That brief high-discharge ability would allow PIP gain the ability to exploit the unused capacity of the traction motor. It's rated at 60 kW. The current battery-pack delivers 38 kW.[/QUOTE]

Engineering "Rule-of-Thumb" is to NEVER design to use 100% capacity for normal conditions; assume normal = 70% of FULL capacity. Thus, with a 39 kW battery pack, assuming 70% of 60 kW motor, is 42 KW usage...pretty darn close.

 

Wouldn't that work out fine for short bursts then, like acceleration?

 

And a good rule of thumb for a PM machine is that they're capable of 5 times rated for short bursts (say, ten seconds at this size).

 

It should. I think NiMh pack in regular Prius are rated 27 kW with about 10 seconds short burst.

 

I think this is REAL!! from the looks of it it's not that much of a BIG difference from the Generation 3 except some added curve lines and the front headlight and grill are different there not showing the back tail lights.One thing for sure most people in the public except Prius owners won't be able to tell the difference between a 3rd generation from the new 4th. For what ever reason the page won't paste you have to write this down to visit the page it's on. carsconcept001.com/?attachment_id=221#image-1

 

If you look at this way... The Prius will still be instantly recognizable... It's been working for toyota so far... why upset thr apple cart...

 

Yep I get heads turning on the streets with my Barcelona red 2014 after washing and waxing.

 

So mass has finally implemented their EV incentive programs: Massachusetts EV rebate program is now online, looks to boost short-term sales - Torque News up until June 2015 or if funds run out - 1.86 million - supposedly 3,600 EV vehicles registered in mass (unsure if that's pure EV or not). But if that's the case and the max rebate is 2.5k, there should be room until June 2015.

Now...it'd be perfect if we can buy the next gen PiP by then.

Also,
Toyota's concept vehicles and upcoming vehicles page has changed : Toyota Concept Cars | Toyota Concept Vehicles

2015 truck and camry is listed as upcoming, so no doubt they'll harp on the Prius once it's announced, depends when, but interesting that the concept vehicles changed with just 2 and there isn't ns4 or any other concepts in the past. Hmm!