$40K Price tag- Fair Guess for initial roll-out?

Hmm

$29k less the rebate of ~ 3k is $26k. I have forgotten what I guessed when this thread first appeared.

Addendum: Found it. $25k

 

A Prius II is about 23,520 + destination + $5,000 PHV option. Now, let's not forget that the Volt has $7,500 while the Prius will have about $2,900. So, after applying their respective tax credits, the Prius PHV needs to cost less than the Volt. They can not afford to have it cost the same. I think the Prius will be less than the Volt, less than $32,495.

Volt: $39,995 - 7,500 = $32,495

 

If the PHV keeps its exclusive spot on the AT-PZEV list that will add lots of value for most consumers in states where that matters, probably enough to more than overcome selling at the same price after tax credit.


As is often pointed out the extra seat, HOV access, and better CS mileage will still tip in its favor, so long as it doesn't cost more (or much more) than a Volt. If the Volt is the economical alternative Toyota will have a problem.

 

We are still comparing a compact to a midsize plugin hybrid. Midsize vehicles typically cost about $3k more than a compact.

 

The wheel base on a prius is 0.6 inches longer.
Overall dimensions the Volt is 1.5 inches longer, 1.7 inches wider, and 2.4 inches shorter.
The prius has 0.5 inches more headroom in the front and 1.6 inches less shoulder room.
The prius has an impressive 11 cu. ft. advantage in storage capacity, and seats 5 rather than 4.

You can play semantics all you want, but they are comparably sized vehicles.

If GM arbitrarily added 0.3 inches to the wheelbase would the Volt suddenly be worth $3000 more?


Read more: 2011 Chevrolet Volt vs 2011 Nissan Leaf SL vs 2011 Toyota Prius III - Specs - Motor Trend

 

EPA classifies the size based on the interior volume, not the exterior or weight. They use cubic feet unit so it is not possible to play semantics with numbers.

 

Volt is 2 cu ft under the midsize cut off and Prius is 5 over, given the Prius has 10 more cubic feet of cargo that means the Volt has a couple more feet of passenger volume. The size difference is negligible (unless you are directly comparing cargo capacity).

 

You are right and i understand that. Currently i am driving an '07 Camry while waiting. The prius is exactly the same EPA size as the Camry, but in a slightly different configuration.

For me, moving to a Prius will be the same size vehicle. The leaf is not to be compared with the Prius, but the Volt is the only other plug-in available.

 

Back legroom alone is enough to invalidate that claim.
.

 

Leaf is a midsize also. There is also the upcoming C-Max Energi plugin. You should seriously consider it if you must have a plugin. If a plug (still first gen) is not a requirement for you, go with the mature cordless hybrid. In 3-5 years, Gen 2 plugins will offer better choices and your cordless hybrid's resale value will still be handsomely high due to the gas price.

 

Cordless Prius doesn't get $2,917 tax credit but the PHV should.

Remember, the Prius PHV does not have the NiMH pack so subtract it from the cost. The PHV battery pack is 1/3 the capacity of the Volt's pack. Do you really think Prius PHV will be priced around the Volt?

 

I think Prius C would make a better comparison to the Volt. If it can seat 5, handles well and runs on regular gas, Volt will be a tough sell in compact commuter hybrid market (along with $18k Insight).

From the plug in market point of view, Volt will be the smallest and the most expensive out of the upcoming plugins (and existing Leaf). Volt will appeal to those see gas and electric in black and white. The rest that see shade with colors will get the synergy of blending gas and electric when it makes sense.

 

Why can't Leaf be compared ? Just because Prius has a fossil fuel engine ? They target the same people ...

Anyway, by the time Prius Plug-in comes, they will have to contend with C-Max Energi (and Focus EV) as well.

Leaf, Focus EV & Energi will all get the HOV access in CA. So will Volt next year.

 

I think the Leaf is great, but it is more appropriate for someone who needs a second car because of range and the need to have access to a plug, driveway or garage.

The Volt is appropriate for someone as their only car, but also needs access to a plug, driveway or garage. You could own a PHV and never plug it in, but also needs access to a plug, driveway or garage. But If someone lives in an apartment, a regular Prius is very appropriate. Leaf and Prius are very different cars.

 

You already mentioned how the Volt seats only 4. It has less cargo capacity and seats one less than the Prius. Even though many of its numbers are similar its cargo capacity is substantially less and its seating capacity 25% less. It is thus a notably smaller vehicle.

I think a base model plugin will be purchasable under $30k take-home, and meaningfully cheaper than a Volt. It will make the dynamics of purchasing a Volt even uglier, for the Volt's only advantage is more range (another 20 miles or so), while costing more, being smaller, and getting substantially worse mileage while on gas. The inevitability of the mathematical comparisons of cost will spring up and really question the relevance of the Volt at its current price point. I've said and will say again i think its price needs to come down $8-10k to be a real contender. At this point they seem to be selling out all they can make but they are only making a few hundred/month.

 

Your points are well taken (although 4 is 20% less than 5).

If a base PHV comes in after tax credit at $29000 and a Volt is there for $32,500 after tax credit those are the considerations that will need to be factored. Is triple the electric range worth a little more? I think it will depend on individual driving habits.

If your typical driving pattern is under 40 miles a day, the Volt will probably burn less gas for you (depending on a number of factors including whether you can stay under the PHV "EV" range or whether you have highway miles regularly traveled, etc...).

 

I heard the PHV premium will be $3-5k over the cordless model. There was no indication if those numbers are before or after the tax credit.

The best case, $2,917 tax credit pretty much cancels out the PHV premium. The worse case, Prius PHV will cost $5k over the cordless model.

Hopefully we find out the price in September.

 

I think the key issue for the initial roll out will be $3-5k more than which prius. Based on the past releases from Toyota (including the original prius) I expect the first couple thousand will be pretty loaded, I'm thinking 4 with nav as equivalent, add $3-5k onto that and you're pretty much in the ballpark we are talking about.

If they really release early spring, they might not get to make more base models available as 2012's and then you're looking at reasonable priced 2013 MY vehicles sometime later in 2012, maybe.

No point in conjecture at this point though, I think we'll know in September as well.