35% (or 25%) of hybrid owners don't buy 2nd hybrid

If you buy a car with a stop-start system, does that count as moving from a hybrid to a non-hybrid?

 

quoting someone posting and totally agree with it?

this is my situation:
when I drove (already sold) Hyundai Tiburon, some people mentioned on n*wtiburon forum that they can achieved 27 MPG . wow hard to believe . but on my personal experience, 21-24MPG was achievable (well 21 with A/C on, 24 without A/C during fall/spring/winter time. the worst case was 19MPG when speeding 80-90MPH on Interstate.
overall was 22 MPG for tiburon V6.

now driving Prius liftback 2013. I do not have urge to speed 80-90MPH .
one way from home to work during non cold day is 53-55MPG( my calculation is 50-52MPG). cold(winter) day average is 49-53 MPG(my calculation is 46-50MPG)

on way back from work to home, I can get 63-66MPG (my calculation is 60-63MPG). on cold day is 59-63MPG(my calculation is 56-60MPG).

I cut gas spending for $200/month.

honestly, the first week driving prius, my average was 45MPG MFD.. yeah finally realized that I can not floor gas pedal as driving my previous Tiburon.

back to Mazda 3, 37-38MPG for mixed driving on city/Highway is amazing. do not know this is achievable or not.
but..47MPG on a trip, does not make sense on me.

I used to have hyundai elantra 1996 with 1600cc engine with manual transmission, I got 32-34MPG for mixed driving and 40MPG on a trip.

with simple calculation by owning prius(hybrid) for 10 years or more... I would save some $$$ than regular gas car.

 

To quote something once heard on Top Gear, 'You mean an ignition switch, starter motor and fingers?'

GM (and others) have tried to call these 'hybrids' only to have a line of pissed off customers who complained they did not get Prius or even Honda hybrid MPG. There is not enough energy in these systems to even sustain a constant speed, much less deal with the really high energies needed to accelerate a car. So GM at one time tried to call their Belt Assisted Systems (BAS . . . ) micro hybrids but charged nearly $1,200 more!

Here is one the GM managers in charge during the roll-out of this "start-stop" effort:

I'm sure he appreciated all the sales as he has always had such nice things to say about our 'hairy legged women' and hybrid buyers in general. Totally lost in the fantasies of the anti-hybrid crowd (a true believer of his own propaganda,) we're lucky he no longer directs the misfortunes of GM as well as he did pre-bankruptcy.

Bob Wilson

 

Irony, but I *like* the idea of the micro-hybrid design. My suspicion is that the design failed because it requires the driver to modify their driving behavior, and of course GM had poisoned that well ages ago.

 

Mazda3 took a nice jump in MPGs from '11 to '12 no doubt with the Skyactiv technology. From 27 to about 31 or 32 MPG avg'd over many miles / owners. But, 32 is not the claimed 38 or your wife's, nor is it the proven 48 MPG of Prius on fuelly.

And I think Prius liftback ought to be compared with Mazda3 i Touring 5 door hatchback w/ automatic transmission because Touring trim gets the 'Smart Key' Prius has. Totally unfair to compare Prius to a base model Mazda3 with trunk which is much less. There are many cheap sedans on the market.


Mazda 3 MPG Reports | Fuelly
Toyota Prius MPG Reports | Fuelly

Mazda 3 i Touring 5 door auto - $22,240 sticker price

2014 Prius Two w/o mats sticker price is $25,010 ...

So, your ' $7k+ ' premium has been corrected to $2,770 more for Prius Two over Mazda 3 i Touring automatic. Any questions?

--------------------------------
Wanna discuss low resale value? Behold, a slew of 2008 BMW 535i , loaded with under 100k miles, priced under $20k !!! Tell me these are not over $60k new. w options, they are easily over $60k

SF bay area cars & trucks classifieds "2008 bmw 535i" - craigslist

A 2008 Prius can bring back $9 to $15k depending on mileage
SF bay area cars & trucks classifieds "2008 Prius" - craigslist

 

I liked my 2011 Prius so much, I got another 2011 Prius. For a mid-size car, it is about the same price of a gas guzzing pick-up truck!! The Prius has a higher resale valve . I do not see it costing $ 10,000.00 more over any mid-size car and/or truck in the long run.
Somebody is using that fuzzey math, again!!
I think everybody is reading too much in these reports!!

I love both of my Prius; 1 gold and 1 silver!!

 

I think the problem is that no other car drives like a Prius... I've driven Ford, Honda and Hyundai hybrids and the GM big-alternator fake hybrid as well, and if I had bought one of those and had to make a decision on whether to buy hybrid again, it would be absolutely not... Most of these other cars either did not have the refined hybrid operation that Toyota had, or they tried their best to make things feel exactly the same as driving the non-hybrid version (which I think is the worst marketing and design decision you could make: unless the car magically got you 100MPG or there was something else groundbreaking or revolutionary, trying to remove the distinction between hybrid and non-hybrid is exactly the recipe for making owners regret their choice and not want to buy another- there should be some familiarity, but IMO, a hybrid *should* also feel different)..

I joined the Prius club in 2003 with a used 2001 Gen1 Prius that I bought without any knowledge of hybrids, but mainly because I needed a replacement car for my Corolla and this one was on sale cheap (previous owner got a big payout from his employer and got himself some fancy sports car- so I avoided any pricing premium and indeed, because I lucked out on it before gas prices went up and before the big hybrid craze brought prices up, for the first 6-7 years that I owned it, the car was actually worth *more* than I paid for it). There wasn't anything I really didn't like about the Gen1 Prius, indeed, there were lots of things to love about it, and I quickly came to the conclusion that if I had to buy another car, it would be another Prius.. The cost premium vs. lifetime gas savings argument simply did not factor into my criteria for buying- I simply loved the way the car drove, the controls and operation were like a conventional vehicle, but the smoothness of acceleration, especially all the smooth low-end torque and power, the electric power steering and regenerative braking were all very unique and still remain pretty unique: there are lots of electric and hybrid vehicles now, but nothing drives quite like a Prius, and after driving one for a while, no other car was "good enough" for me.. It didn't matter that a Yaris or some GM piece of crap was up to tens of thousands of dollars cheaper- as I said, the price was not even a factor- if the Prius were another $10k more, I'd have found some way to afford it because I wanted that driving experience..

I travel quite extensively and have rented all sorts of models of car, mostly conventional, but some hybrids as well and some of them are quite nice, but I always compare them to the Prius and ultimately find each of them lacking in some way.. There's a reason Prius owners are loyal- there's no other hybrid like it- it's not a perfect car by any means, but it's one that just feels right to me, so it's no surprise that other brands are not enjoying the return sales that the Prius boasts..

 

Hi John,

I remember once reading a synopsis on your web site describing the behavior patterns of Prius 'skeptics' and the different flavors they come in. Do you have a link to that summary handy?

Bob Wilson

 

For clarification, a micro-hybrid is generally used to refer to a car with a start/stop system that provides no drive power to the ICE. The BAS systems did provide some motive power to the ICE, making them mild hybrids.

I liked the idea of BAS. While the assist they provided was low enough that most found calling them a hybrid laughable, they did provide more gas saving potential than a basic start/stop system. The larger battery pack meant the system was likely to be more robust than a start/stop, but still have a cost advantage over more powerful hybrid systems.

BAS failed in part to marketing. The aforementioned use of hybrid was seen as a stretch in comparison to Toyota, Ford, and Honda hybrids. Using something like eAssist from the beginning would have kept such comparisons uncommon, and allowed the public a chance to see the systems potential strengths.

The other part was GM's unwillingness to stand behind and push it. The system's real potential in saving gas would come to fruition in widespread implementation across models. Something that should have been easier to do than other hybrid systems in light of BAS's simpler design and cost. For it to gain such traction, GM needed to bite the bullet and offer it at a lower cost, or better yet, make it standard in the base, or next step up, trim.

Right now, new engine design and start/stop is allowing them to hit their MPG targets on the Malibu for lower cost. We might see it return when they need to get better numbers, or on the performance option engine.

 

EV mode has nothing to do with being a hybrid. Unless it has a plug, a high EV only speed is mostly bragging rights. Over using it can actually lower overall fuel efficiency. The ability to glide is more important for fuel efficiency than having an EV mode.

 

Many Prius drivers in the Washington DC area are senior citizens and the Prius represent the last car that person will own before that person dies or lose his/her ability to drive.

 

I'm muddying the waters then. I was thinking of a system that has start/stop and no ICE spin while coasting ("glide") at speeds used in city driving.

 

Prius sux and all hybrids are suck because the battery goes in all landfill and Hummer is less environmental harming than Prius .......






J/K .... needed to do a stupid rant and vent some steam. Au Revoir (sp?)

 

I think a Prius is fun to drive. Owned probably 40 cars in my lifetime, previous was a Porsche. Both cars fun in very different ways. I don't track the Prius like the Porsche nor do I seek out the longest most circuitous route to the store. But put me on a 250 mile cruise and there are enough buttons and dash displays to keep me awake and amused. Without those I doubt I'd have bought. And I don't buy premium gas nor spend $1,600 on tires every 20k miles either.

Different cars for different times in our lives and different demands on our time and wallets. I've got to take the 6' Xmas tree to the dump tomorrow. The v will do it just fine. But if I had an expending family like my son has, it would have to be a mini-van. Nothing wrong with a non-hybrid solution if it better meets your needs. And the hybrid will get recycled down the food chain and go on saving somebody running costs for years and years.

 

I

I still get tbe questions after owning 6+ years. Interestingly enough, one of the guys that had the most questions ended up getting one, and he really likes it. He really knows his cars, too. Ya never know.

 

As a city driver, I can tell you an EV wouldn't work for me for a number of reasons:

1. I live in a small condo building with street parking. There is no garage or carport close enough for me to park in and my small building does not have below ground parking. Since I park on the street, I don't have easy access to regularly charge an EV. My office doesn't have one, either. In fact, I am not sure I have seen any public charging stations here in DC.

2. I like keeping a car so I can get OUT of the city to visit my family (~70 miles round trip) and go on longer weekend trips. Any trip longer than 70-100 miles is difficult with the range of current EVs without planning and time built-in to charge. I think this would severely cripple these types of adventures and having to build a longer trip around charging seems like a huge annoyance.

3. So, you might be thinking, "well then, why not just take another car when you want to get out of the city?" My answer to that is a) because I don't have one easily accessible (I'm single, so I don't have the luxury of being able to have an EV as just one of multiple family cars) and b) because why on Earth would I want to always have to rent a car for longer weekend trips when I already have one? Having to do that all the time would completely diminish the luxury and value of owning a personal vehicle.

 

City doesn't mean NYC, its means pretty much anywhere that isn't highway. Just because most of your driving is highway doesn't mean that city mileage doesn't matter. You aren't the only person car manufacturers are thinking of. 15% of the US population lives in rural areas, which means most of the country lives in urban areas. Not all of their driving will be city, but certainly a good portion of it will be.