35% (or 25%) of hybrid owners don't buy 2nd hybrid

feel free to play with the numbers. Here are some estimates of 5 year costs with depreciation and fuel
Compare Cost to Own 2012 Ford Focus vs 2013 Toyota Prius

Elantra because of its low depreciation and farely good gas milage seems to be the leader. If you are going to drive it into the ground and you don't care about the first 5 years, a used model may be best for lowest tco.

 

Too bad this cannot look past 5 years nor 100k miles. I want to see 15 years and 200k miles.

Setting everything to hatchback, and dropping the Elantra (no hatchback version), the Fiesta does win at 5 years. But not by enough to cover my rental car needs caused by its smaller size. That leaves Prius as my choice, lower cost than the Focus Hatchback.

With the differing CR ratings, I expect the cost gap to widen enormously between their 5 year point and my 200k miles point.

PS: Consumer Reports shows TCO for 1, 3, 5, and 8 years. At 8, it shows:
Prius IV (not II) - $39,500
Focus SEL HB - $47,500
Focus ST HB MT - $56,000
Focus SE sedan - $45,500 (flunks my HB/wagon requirement)
Fiesta SE sedan - $40,000
Elantra GT (HB?) - $46,500
Elantra GLS sedan - $43,500
Honda Fit base - $37,500

This is consistent with CR's latest report -- Fit is the cheapest and 2nd best value, Prius is slightly more expensive but the best value, Corolla and Civic Hybrid trail by just a nose. And Armada, Escalade, and F-250 are just entering the backside from the second turn.

 

Good start.

How much money did you save in fuel over the 300k miles of the first Insight, compared to a car you "should" have bought ?

 

Why did I get a Prius? My job is monitoring smog per federal and state requirements. I know which way those numbers are headed.

 

These Prius are not forsale:

• 2003 Prius - bought used, 160,000 miles, over 110,000 my miles, still gets 52 MPG year round, used it as work commuter car today.
• 2010 Prius - bought new, 50,000 miles, still gets 52 MPG year round, used it yesterday to get groceries and other errands, still gets 52 MPG year round but 5 mph faster than the 2003.

Between now and September, I will be looking for a used, Lincoln MKZ hybrid with their accident avoidance system. If I find one for the right price, I'll sell the 2003 Prius. If you're going to ride around in a 'comfy chair,' might as well make it worth the trip:


After all, it is December 27, 2013 and no one was expecting a Prius Inquisition:

. . . especially one dated from April 2012.

For the OP, is that clear?

. . . this subject has been talked about before with similar results.

Bob Wilson

 

...don't leave me hanging...how are the numbers heading?
I think better but we've had less coal since 2012 and more new cars (cleaner).

 

I've owned a total of 3 hybrids, still own 2 of them. My secret is that the combined purchase price of all 3 of them is less than a new C. I like the technical side of hybrids and they also tend to be nicely equipped even at the base level. Regular gas cars just look so inefficient after having a hybrid.

 

So, did this old survey discover that if you ignore real hybrids, the GM owners who bought micro-Hybrids (lots of stickers but no perceivable hybrid features) wised up and did not get taken twice? If so, I congratulate them

Or was there some part I missed?

BAS Hybrid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

The 'numbers' are going down, thankfully, due to a large investment by gas companies. The source of most pollution these days is the internal combustion engine. All the power plants in so cal burn natural gas, most cars don't. The Prius helps by turning some of it's normally wasted energy (braking) into usable electricity the car can run on.

 

When outdated & obscure topics are posted, it's a good sign. The pattern fits. We've seen that many times before. New threads like this one only appear when the competition has failed to deliver.

In fact, bringing up references to an old survey which referred to "hybrids" in a extremely vague way is a perfect example. Adding to it by claiming discontinued vehicles could deliver the same performance confirms the desperate situation. Heck, my 1984 Omni could also deliver 50 MPG highway. But what's the point? It was a small vehicle without any safety features, a high center-of-gravity, no A/C, manual windows, manual brakes, and a manual transmission.

We are now at a turning point. With Prius so well proven and other automakers struggling to offer something clean & efficient, the paradigm shift is happening. Vehicles which grossly exceeded need have went from being a symbol of prestige to having a stigma of waste.

Attempts to stir discussion like this confirm the market change. It's just too bad the choices available aren't competitive yet... hence references to the past rather than looking forward. Think about how few people actually understand what a Prius with a plug delivers. No old survey can reflect that.

 

I'm NOT in withing those numbers, I'm currently own 3 Prii, a PiP is one of them

 

Strange.
Over this holiday, visiting family and friends, I noticed in casual get togethers that people seemed to like to mention at some point, that I drove a Prius.

I wasn't bringing it up. But in course, and with small talk and casual conversation inevitably somebody would mention that I drove a Prius. Not necessarily as an endorsement or an indictment....but it would get mentioned.

I NEVER owned a vehicle where this happened. I mean, I obviously like my "Prius", or I wouldn't of bought one. And I like all that it IS in the form of being a hybrid. BUT...it's not a Ferrari or Lamborghini, or anything I would call an "exotic" automobile. I mean, Toyota celebrates the fact that 5 million of them have been sold.

It was a little awkward, as I then felt I needed to make some comment, and actually? I discuss Prius, and hybrids enough HERE....at a Christmas party? I don't really want to talk about it.

I guess I hang around here so much, that the idea that so many people STILL think of "Prius" as being a something "different" or more than just an automobile, or don't have a good understanding of what a hybrid is...surprises me. I was asked "how" it worked and whether I had to plug it in, and some people didn't seem to get the "hybrid" aspect, thinking it was a Full Electric.

Maybe it was because I did just buy this vehicle this year. Hopefully by next Christmas, the fact that I own a Prius won't be fodder for conversation. Not that I mind talking about it....but I'd rather keep discussion about Hybrid Ownership focused within sites like Prius Chat.

"Yes, I like it"
"Yes, in all but the coldest of winter months, I do get 50 mpg"
"No, with my "standard" Prius, I do not have to plug it in"

"It runs on both electric, gasoline and both"

"No, I don't have to worry about the battery going dead on a long drive"

Not the most "magical" of Holiday Celebration discussion. Wasn't really expecting to have to talk about it. As mainstream as The Prius seems to me, to of become, there still are a lot of people that really don't understand what a Hybrid vehicle "Is".

 

This is my favorite BS argument.

Among 300 million Americans, you can find a LOT of Americans that do just about anything.

 

Amazing that you would claim ". . . the only reason I make these comparisons . . ." and think that a Prius owner would be impressed by your thinking:

So in 2001, we compared a Prius to an Echo and in 2009, sold the Echo to buy our 1.8L, 2010 Prius. In nine years of Echo ownership, we got about 30,000 miles. In four years of 2010 Prius ownership, we got about 45,000 miles:

• 3,333 miles/year = 30000/9 years :: how much RETURNED SERVICE from Echo
• 11,250 miles/year = 45000/4 years :: how much RETURNED SERVICE from Prius

We got more than THREE TIMES the value from the Prius per year compared to that crappy Echo that just sat in the driveway.

Now I understand you think there are "a LOT of consumers" who are so rich that they can afford to buy cheap things that sit idle. They are so wealthy they can pay annual insurance and tag fees for driveway 'art.' So we paid over twice as many annual insurance bills and tag fees on the Echo so it could only give us less than 1/3 the value of the Prius that replaced it.

The things this Prius owner buys have to 'earn their keep' and provide service. I buy them to work for me. But if the consumers you are fond of describing are in the market for things that are not being used, I've got some old ice skates up in the attic I haven't used since we moved to North Alabama. I'd be happy to let them have them for a cheap price. . . . After all, you think ". . . a LOT of consumers . . ." have no concept of returned value.

Hummm, Spring Cleaning is coming up soon. Since those "consumers" like buying stuff that no longer provides value . . . we'll make sure they get first crack at these bargains.

Bob Wilson

 

A little under $20k for a base auto Ford Escort Hatchback.
2014 Ford Focus: Build and Price | Ford

TH's "$10k USD difference" is nonsense.

 

Familiar attack methods from a known Prius antagonist.

Yawn.

 

I hate it when that happens. I usually get right in people's faces to correct the record (and let them know "whats up"). If people have a lack of understanding of how a hybrid system works, hey, that's no crime. But when they combine said lack of understanding with an "indictment"......well, not sure of your family and friends, but them are fightin' words in my house!
An 'indictment' usually has to do with you either being (a) politically to the left and/or (b) extremely active in environmental issues......since you drive a Prius! Duh!
This is the product of over a decade of public perception shaped by the media and advertising, which Toyota did very little to change (in fact it embraced this persona for the Prius and stoked it even more).

I'm sick and tired of people still talking about "smugness"......thanks to the a-holes @
South Park, it appears this meme will never go away!
And then there's the environment (and politics, but they go hand-in-hand since it's rare (though not unheard of) to see environmental concerns being factored into buying decisions of those on the right.

Anyhow, this meme is the most damaging since it is based on willful disregard of facts in plain sight. And that's the meme of "good for the environment". At least with smugness, everyone can disagree on whether its true......(some BMW drivers are also pereceived as such).......but, there is no objective way to measure 'smugness'.

That's not true with environmental impact. And here is where the cognitive dissonance of a certain generation/political persuasion sets in. They need to twists facts to fit their argument:

- There is no denying the Prius uses fewer gallons to go xx miles, meaning less gas burned, meaning less CO2 per mile. So those who don't like the Prius will simply say that global warming doesn't exist or does but isn't a problem, or cite some bogus numbers showing the co2 footprint is higher because of battery manufacture and shipping parts all over

- There is no denying that Prius produces fewer tailpipe emissions that cause localized smog and health problems like asthma and lung cancer. But they never bring this up (too hard to deny what your eyes see over skies of LA)

- There is no denying that Prius uses less imported oil, meaning lower trade deficits and more money kept in the local economy. Of course, this virtue is never mentioned. Nope. That right belongs to truck and SUV drivers who put (made-in-China) yellow flags on their guzzler to show how much they "support the troops"....cognitive dissonance at it's finest!! Meanwhile, Prius drivers are tree-hugging commies since we actually "support the troops" by using less foreign oil.

- There is no denying that Prius has a lower cost per mile than any comparable gas car. This is mentioned, but then you get these bogus "break-even calculations" like we've seen on this thread, where a Prius is unfavorably compared (highway mpg only, etc.) against cars that are either way smaller, way less-equipped or both.

- There is no denying that there are other hybrids out there. But people who are axiomatically against the technology (too many reasons to get into) always conflate "Prius" with "hybrid". They will never admit that hybrid technology is catching on (even with McLaren, Porsche, Jaguar, etc.) in models that get both better mpg and performance than the car they drive. (It would ruin their 'hybrid sux' meme, so of course they'll deny or disparage the existence of said hybrids)

After I explain to people what an IDIOT they are for thinking the way they do (but nicely
I get the usual denials and inability to admit they're wrong.
Misconceptions on technical issues are another matter, and I think most people who are properly explained hybrid tech will catch on ("Oh, it doesn't idle at stoplights. And it's cool to capture braking energy in the battery")
I usually try not to call anyone out when explaining technical stuff, but sometimes I'm tempted to because some people appear unable to understand even basic concepts.

In summary, it was actually a little embarrassing to watch all the concerted efforts over the past decade to disparage the Prius, all because a small group of people are afraid of change.....I mean the stuff we've seen: the San Diego guy with the brake/acceleration hoax, the bogus study claiming a Hummer H2 was better for the environment, dust-to-dust, the Top Gear "story" showing a BMW diesel getting better mpg than a Prius (and an earlier one showing a Gen I being shot up), FUD about batteries failing after 75k miles and costing $10k....and of course threads like this one trying to show hybrid owners have a low retention rate

It's been fun guys! But we're 'Moving Forward'.
5 million sales ain't no joke!