1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Featured 2023 Toyota bZ3 Sedan Leaked

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Tideland Prius, Aug 27, 2022.

  1. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    22,447
    11,760
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    The BMW 3 and 4 series have the same wheelbase and front track measurements. The 4's rear track, length, and width is 1 to 2 inches more, but it's shorter. The main difference between the two is number of doors. The bZ numbers can be referring to cargo space for all we know, or Toyota simply doesn't want SUV and car models to have the same number.

    The X for crossover and SUV has been used for a while.

    According to this article, https://mezha.media/en/2022/09/22/is-toyota-bz3-electric-sedan-going-to-be-sold-in-europe/, the bZ3 is 1.4 inches longer and an inch narrower than the bZ4X.
    Which Corolla are they referring? The international model is bigger than the one for Japan, and China gets a stretched option.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Corolla_(E210)
    The sales figures suggests Camry owners are comparing, and switching too, the Rav4. But then that isn't like to like in terms of market size class.

    The Avalon is EPA midsize. Which could be part of the reason it is getting replaced by the Crown. The Accord is a true full size now.
     
    Tideland Prius likes this.
  2. Prashanta

    Prashanta Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2016
    292
    242
    0
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Technology
    The Highlander is a 3-row SUV. I think the Camry competes more with the RAV4 and Venza. (Never mind the size class, the passenger space offered are similar.)
     
  3. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2012
    3,760
    1,680
    0
    Location:
    Sanford, NC
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    Limited

    We have a 2021 Avalon hybrid and a 2019 Rav4 hybrid. My impression is the Avalon has more usable passenger room and I base that judgement on my 6 foot frame sitting in both and watching an NFL lineman sized son sit in both. Measurements may differ.

    I prefer the Rav4 around town, the Avalon on the road except for the odd fact that both equipped to the max and the Rav being older, the Avalon doesn't have the ability to drive itself on Interstates. The Rav4 does.
     
  4. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    22,447
    11,760
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Regardless, the bZ3 has about the same foot print as the bZ4X. The crossover is 7 inches taller, but also has an 8.1 inch ground clearance, leaving the interior height likely near the same. The Corolla and Rav4 have just as similar dimensions, and they are similar in size to these BEVs.

    In cars with an alphanumeric code for a name, a letter or number within could refer to a size class. If that is what Toyota is doing with the bZ models, the 3 to 4 is just a difference in height. Toyota could also be using the odd and even numbers to denote trunk or hatch here, like BMW did with sedan and coupe.
     
    #64 Trollbait, Oct 9, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2022
  5. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    45,024
    16,242
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    On price maybe (although the Venza is much more expensive than a Camry XLE Hybrid.

    But that’s the thing with SUVs. They’re priced one class higher. A “compact” RAV4 is priced in the Camry range and the Highlander in the Avalon range (still tops up higher than the Avalon Limited Hybrid).
     
  6. Prashanta

    Prashanta Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2016
    292
    242
    0
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Technology
    The RAV4 is only called "compact" in North America. Never mind the classification. If someone didn't care whether he got a sedan or CUV, that person is more likely to cross-shop the RAV4 with the Camry than with the Corolla. The passenger space offered by the three vehicles is pretty telling:
    RAV4: 98.9 cu ft
    Camry: 100.4 cu ft
    Corolla: 88.6 cu ft
     
  7. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    45,024
    16,242
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Wouldn't the RAV4's volume include the cargo area because it's a wagon/SUV vs. a sedan with a compartmentalized interior?
     
  8. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2018
    7,432
    6,915
    1
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius c
    Model:
    Two
    I'm puzzled by this. I rented an Avalon a couple years ago and very much enjoyed the automatic radar cruise feature. I think that car was a 2019. Have they removed features from the Avalon, or given the rav4 something extra?
     
  9. Prashanta

    Prashanta Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2016
    292
    242
    0
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Technology
    They measure passenger space and cargo space. Separate measurements of separate spaces. For CUV/SUVs they often measure the space behind front seats when all others are folded down to indicate the maximum cargo volume if you were using the vehicle for just cargo.
     
    Tideland Prius likes this.
  10. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2012
    3,760
    1,680
    0
    Location:
    Sanford, NC
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    Limited

    Both cars are as loaded with packages as you could order and both are Limiteds which are top of the line. Both have radar lane marking detection and distance following and cruise control. What the '19 Rav4 has is assisted driving where it will keep in the lanes and basically drive for you on Interstates or well marked roads. The Avalon doesn't seem to have that capability despite being 2 years later. Or at least with the same controls I haven't been able to activate it.
     
    #70 mikefocke, Oct 10, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2022
  11. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    22,447
    11,760
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    The Rav4 is only called compact in the US because it is smaller than the Highlander, which is thought of as midsize, because Toyota has the Sequoia to sell. EPA truck sizes are based on gross vehicle weight, not interior volume. 6000 pounds and up to 10,000 is standard, and less than that is small. Which gives marketing plenty of area to work with.
    From the driver aids discussions here, i gather that Toyota had a lane keeping system that kept the car within the lines. Then around the time the gen4 Prius came out, they went with a less aggressive lane keeping assist that would just nudge the steering wheel at most. There were some complaints of the older system ping-ponging from side to side.
     
    Tideland Prius likes this.
  12. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    45,024
    16,242
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    I think it's because he's talking about TSS-P 2.0 on the RAV4 vs. TSS-P on the Avalon.

    2.0 has Lane Trace Assist to complement the LDA w/ SA on TSS-P.
     
    Trollbait likes this.