Featured 2023 Prime review

Lithium-ion-cell manufacturers have constantly been improving their cells. Cells now are definitely better than cells six years ago. If they don't/can't improve them, they will fall behind competition and go out of business.

 

If you are talking about ChaDeMo ... it was only prius prime available in Japan, where different districts often have different power available. Typically, just 100v at 50htz. THAT's why CHAdeMO ... because 100v is painfully slow ... even in a painfully small battery.

Here's a PC link - from the only one (afaik) ever imported into the USA. Grey market vehicles are rare no days, what with ever evolving regulations;

Reduce Max. Current while DC Charging with CHAdeMO | PriusChat

 

@Trollbait thought that Gen 5 in Japan also had CHAdeMO or CCS1 DC fast charging like Gen 4 in Japan did. It does not. I guess the Japanese people will have to live with the "painfully slow" 12-hour Level-1 charging for their Gen 5 Prius Prime.

 

Japan also had CHAdeMO for the gen1 RAV4 EV. I think some of my photos in my PC gallery still show a guy using it in japan.
EDIT;
(couple samples)



can't mistake that big round port ...



.... & that was back in the 1990s. seems like only yesterday
.

 

Photo shows only a cap, not the port. If it had CHAdeMO, how can there be no AC-charging port?

 

CHAdeMO chargers are also relatively common there. Japan has almost as many deployed as in the entire US. Though the total public chargers per capita could be lower.

Some of the public charger numbers include their Level 1, which can take twice as long as our Level 1.

I am now curious about how long charge mode can take in a parked car. That is DC charging, and MG1 is rated higher than 20kW.

With better cooling, the gen5 should be better able to handle quick charging. There are several possible reasons that it, and the Rav4P, doesn't have it.

Parks shortage is one. Toyota is saving those for their BEVs.

The low sales volume. Earlier, their announced delivery intention for the PHV in Japan was 450 a month, and these are all top trim. The gen4 at the same point was planned delivering of over 2000.

Toyota is waiting on ChaoJi. This is the joint standard between CHAdeMO and GB/T(China). Sounds like the technical specifications were set back in 2020, but it is just starting to be rolled out. It is a different plug shape, but still a separate one. However, it fits underneath the J1227 plug to take up less space on the car, kind of like CCS. I am leaning towards this as it will likely what the latest push for more chargers in Japan will use for quick ones.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ChaoJi
https://www.electrive.com/2023/09/25/china-approves-new-dc-charging-standard-chaoji-1/

Previously, you were calling the J1227 a CCS, which was confusing.

I am aware of the SAE's separate AC and DC Levels, but many sources still use Level 3 to refer to faster than AC Level 2.

My point was that Toyota's claim of 20 minutes to 80% for the gen4 PHV wasn't possible with AC charging.

It was a reasonable assumption based on what their past PHEVs had in Japan, and the charging availability there. You didn't believe the gen4 even had fast DC charging, and when presented with evidence, claimed it was aftermarket conversions.

Painfully slow is at 100V and 6amps. A gen4 PHV will take 14 hours, and a Rav4 PHV 27 hours. The only mention of charging in gen5 press release for Japan was with the solar roof. Left plenty of room for speculation.
Toyota Launches Redesigned "Prius PHV" in Japan | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website
Toyota Launches New Model RAV4 PHEV | Toyota | Global Newsroom | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website
World Premiere of All-New Prius in Japan | Toyota | Global Newsroom | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website
Toyota Launches All-New Prius PHEV in Japan | Toyota | Global Newsroom | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website

 

CCS obviously means "combined" (AC/DC) charging system; so, it was a mistake on my part to call the AC port alone CCS.

That's only 600 W. You are saying Japanese don't believe in hair driers?

 

If you look at my other gallery photos - - you can see the port both capped/closed & uncapped/open. Remember this was 2 decades ago and I don't recall if the CHAdeMO connection was the only charger it had. You wouldn't want to try to charge a big battery on only 100v. That would be even more impractical than on the prime.
.

 

In those residences, which is about half, I guess they use towels.

Higher amperages are available elsewhere, but the higher amperage appears to come with higher electric rates.
Public Utility Prices in Japan (Electricity, Gas, Water) - JapanLivingGuide.net - Living Guide in Japan
Electricity in Japan | Japan Experience

Being resource poor tends to suck.

CHAdeMO came out in 2010. Even the J1227 dates back to around then. Old RAV4 EVs with them must have been retrofitted.

The public chargers from the EV1 era used induction paddles.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magne_Charge
Can't tell if that was also used for home charging.

 

got yer 'port' clearly visible

ha !!

found the video that i pulled the japanese chademo shots from. the author says there were only ~60 made/purchased ... and of note, the guy in the video asks, "why do you need three charging stations if there are so few of these?
same ol' chicken & egg story

.

 

Thinking about it, the use of better cooling might be why the car doesn't have DC charging now. With the change in cooling, Toyota likely went with a cheaper chemistry that is not as heat tolerant as the air cooled cells in the gen4. Thus they may not want to risk quick charging the battery in the gen5 and Rav4.

 

The Gen 5 Panasonic cells are more advanced cells than the Gen 4 Panasonic cells. Do you think that huge price premium between the HEV and PHEV versions would be justified if Toyota used cheap cells in its tiny 13.6-kWh battery? Currently, lithium-ion cells are valued at $98 per kWh.

What better cooling? According to the new-car features manuals, Gen 4 and Gen 5 PHEV systems are practically identical except for the number of cells in the battery. There is no liquid cooling in either car. Cool air from the A/C can be used to cool the interior of the car to help cool the battery. It is the same feature in both Gen 4 and Gen 5. The battery also has two fans, and the charger has one fan..

(c) Pre-charging Battery Cooling Control

(1) Straight after driving, if the HV battery assembly temperature is high when charging begins, the air conditioning system is operated to efficiently cool the HV battery assembly to prevent high battery temperatures, especially when the SOC is high, and to minimize deterioration of the HV battery assembly.

(2) The pre-charging battery cooling system can be set to on or off via the multi-information display.

 

The Rav4 Prime uses refrigerant lines to directly cool the battery. Came across mention that the new Prius Prime was doing the same. If true, this is better cooling than just air. Transferring heat by air alone from the cells is inefficient, which means they will see higher temperatures than a with a better cooling system. Chemistries that can safely handle such have a higher price tag.

The term cheap was used simply in reference to cost. Not to quality. Better cooling system lets the EV use less expensive cells. Now if the maker has concerns about the cooling system being enough to handle the heat from quick charging on a trip, they might decide to skip on the quick charge option to avoid it.

 

No, it is not true. Gen 4 and Gen 5 PHEV systems are practically identical.

 

toyota-prius-prime-2023-good-and-bad

 

Link?
EDIT
wow! you fast!

 

"The move of the physically bigger and a higher capacity Li-Ion battery to the underside of the car which now requires liquid cooling and electric heating depending on the battery temperature."
From a Car Care Nut video.

Not only is liquid/refrigerant cooling better at cooling, it allows for a smaller battery package.

 

Oh noes! It got me.

 

I would take anything he says with a grain of salt. I was skipping over the video, and he kept making all kinds of inaccurate statements.

He also talks about the wheel bolts on the demo model, without realizing that the production model uses wheel nuts.

Regarding liquid vs. air cooling, Gen 5 NCF is identical to the Gen 4 NCF I have. A/C refrigerant cooling simply refers to cool air coming from the A/C (bad Japanese translation)—there is no A/C evaporator attached to the PHEV battery.

 

I see it at about 15 into the video. So I keep going back into the Twilight Zone here on this site. What is real and what is not real.

So ccn made it up?