2023 LE fwd mpg, what are you getting?

All cars were for well off people at that time. With electrics being popular because they had less hassles than steam and ICE cars. It was almost twenty years between the first gasoline car and the Model T.

The article isn't about the motor, it's about the battery. Now that we have had EV cars running around for some time now, we are seeing that the batteries are lasting better than what lab testing predicting. I posted it to counter the disposable car claim being made here. If EVs are, then so are ICE ones.

We already have fast charging EVs. Can't reduce the battery size without the charging infrastructure to back it up.

 

Fast in the current context may mean an hour though.

I am given to understand that one of the reasons solid state batteries are being pursued is that they can be charged far more quickly. I would not expect that battery development would stop at that point.

If I need to stop on my trip to charge to extend my range by 150 miles and it takes 15 minutes, it's a non-trivial addition to my travel time. If it takes only three or four minutes, it starts to look more like the very minor delay we associate with getting gas.

That doesn't address the infrastructure issues except as to how many cars can reasonably be put through each charging station in a given period. Yes, smaller capacity means more frequent charging.

I'd agree that an EV is no more or less disposable than a modern car with an engine. I'm not confident either would remain desirable with age. If you found a 20 year old cell phone with a good battery, the phone itself might still be obsolete.

 

Depending on the specific model, a Hyundai/Kia EV can add over 200 miles in 18 minutes. On a road trip, that's 2.5 to 3 hours before needing to stop again. It isn't as fast as filling with liquid fuel, but the majority of the public aren't doing road trips all the time. Most charging is done at home, so no time wasted stopping at a gas station to cover the daily miles.

For other brands, the 10% to 80% charge time is generally in the 20 to 40 minute range. Only older models with low DC charge rates, like the Bolt, take an hour.

As I said, the issue is lack of infrastructure to support the faster charging. Solid state or other battery advancement could allow even faster charging, but then the chargers will need to be upgraded to provide it.

Toyota pushed back their solid state release date by another 2 years.

The average age of the US fleet is now past 15 years. People may not want cars that old, but for many, it is all they can afford, while being a need in most of the country. Not being able to connect to mobile networks anymore will be a plus for some.

 

1. Or women who couldn't hand crank a Gasser
2. That's true of some Brand T offerings. My Bolt is 3600 lbs.
When this subject comes up I always say 'My 3600 lb EV weighs the same as a 3600 lb Gasser.
3. My 15 yr old Gen3 is surprisingly rust free, and I live 'in the land of the ice and snow'. Maybe manufacturers are building better cars...

 

1. Oh yes, SS Li-Ion batteries! Any year now... just ask Toyota.
2. You Po Ting. Stopping for 15 minutes while on a Road Trip. I understand that some people are in a hurry.

How do you feel about scheduling and performing Oil Changes on your Gasser? That's very 'non-trivial'...
Sounds like you are fine with burning stuff and making stink while you drive your Gasser.

I can use my '17 Bolt on infrequent EV Road Trips. But it's a 1st Gen EV that was designed when 50kW DCFC was the norm.
I guess I have a tolerance for getting off me butt and doing a walkabout while on Road Trips.
I bought in in LA and drove it home to KC in 2020. No problem. And the DCFC network is much bigger now!
But daily all it does is a 50 mile RT commute. Cycling from ~87% (Hilltop setting) to ~50% SOC. There are seasonal differences.
This may make for a long life battery.
Only time will tell. I'm past due for it's 'non-trivial' ATF change at 106k mi. I'm at 121k mi. Shame on me...

 

They absolutely are, and I accept that the presence of a battery isn't what makes a modern car disposable. We are far from the time when people bought new cars every three years and you could tell a bad area by all the rusty cars.

In the early 90s, I talked to a GM engineer who described variable valve timing to me before it was a common feature in the market. It sounded complex, finnicky, and an unlikely mass market item.

What we have or foresee now may not be the best indicator of what we will have later. We see a drive to make consumer products better and more affordable, and I see no reason battery technology would be peculiarly immune to that process.

I solve that problem by not getting my oil changed during a road trip. Time isn't fungible, and I'm not obligated to have service performed when it is least convenient. That's not an option for refuelling and recharging.

 

Kind of silly relating routine oil changes and DCFC times with an EV,, and only when you are on a Road Trip?
Not the same same.

If you time what it takes to change course to go to a gas station, the moment you turn the wheel to get there from whatever destination you are really going to, pump that smelly stuff, wipe the smell off your hands, and then back on the original route.
And the whole time it takes to do the oil change routine, phone call, the driving to, the waiting for the waste oil to drain,,etc.
That is time, which is, as you say, 'Not Fungible'. Fuel, once a week? Oil change, once every 6 mons, or less depending..?


Now compare that to the 10 seconds per day I spend 'fueling'. That time is: 5 sec to get out of car, walk to charge handle, plug in. And the reverse in the mornings. And the one oil change I'm past due at 106k miles. (I'm bad... )

True, I spend more time when on an EV Road Trip, so what? A walk about is good for the body.
Does any normal person sit on their bottom for 500 miles non-stop? I have in my yute.

 

Unless we are discussing the obstacle represented by refueling/recharging on a longer trip, in which case it is pertinent.

That's great, but not pertinent to someone taking a longer trip.

Because average speed matters more on longer trips. It's part of the reason you may only drive 30 mph in town, but you'd never drive 30 mph the whole way on a trip from DC to Miami. It's nice that you like walks, but that's not typically a selling point for a car.

If you have only an average commute and local shopping, a battery only car may be a brilliant solution, especially if you like the car itself. Even if it isn't cheaper, you might prefer it for other reasons. On the other hand, if you were to learn when you get into the office that you need to drive from Northern Chicago to Detroit, then the limits of range and charge time become more important. If you have a distant place to be at a specific time, then speed, range and recharge times all matter more. That's why you wouldn't take surface streets on that trip.

You would not learn about this trip and decide to change your oil along the way because your time is relatively scarce during that trip. You'd have your oil changed when nothing else pressing was happening. You don't have the same option with recharging; on a 600 mile trip, you will need to do some recharging.

I don't change course to fill up. Part of the elasticity of greater range is the option to fill up when a very convenient opportunity presents itself. My tank is only about 10 gallons total and filling it from card swipe to pulling away is a couple of minutes. I manage not to get it all over my hands.

My observation is that as the tech progresses, faster charging than is currently available erodes the obstacles presented by most EVs today.