2023 LE fwd mpg, what are you getting?

Sort trips in winter is normal to get low 35 mpg. In a long trip summer, you will get easily 45-60 mpg. if you drive 40-50 mph, you can get at least 50 mpg.

 

My observation having driven in temperatures from 75 to 40f and in rain:

The correlation between temperature and time in EV mode is high. On a cool morning the engine will start after the car barely moves and will keep running longer when it does switch on. My guess would be that the engine switches on largely for the purpose of keeping it within a reasonable operating temperature.

The correlation between time in EV mode and more miles driven per gallon is pretty strong.

Rain at higher speeds also seems to decrease efficiency quite a bit. A long fall drive at about 40f with lots of rain showed a long stint in the low 40mpg range.

TLDR version: rain and cold burns more gas.

 

The cabin temp is maintained by supply heat from the engine. Once the engine is hot, it will be longer in EV mode.

 

Is it better to drive in HV mode until everything is warmed up? For drive experience i would like to drive EV for as long as possible.

 

winter is the worst thing for any EV. heating needs a lot of wattage which is free from combustion engines.
In cold temperature, EV is often more expensive per miles than any ICE cars with the same HP.

 

This is the sort of 'Catch all Quote' that 'those' new services run with,
and it's totally false the majority of the time. Can you site an example?
yes, yes, you said "often"....

It would be totally dependent on what the electricity costs in a particular region. And gas costs.
Some areas electricity is relatively more than most others.

How about when I'm paying $0.023 / kWh from 12- 6 AM? That's 2 cents per kWh!
Which works out to less than a penny a mile in my Bolt!

Some EV/PHEV's have a heat pump system, some have plain resistance heat. That is a factor.
I still don't understand how the heat pump cars can provide Heated and Dehumidified Air at the same time.
And of course, Preheating (or Precooling) while plugged in has no effect on the range.

 

Can only speak for the Prius system, but...

There are a total of three coils in the Prius PHEV A/C box.
1. Heater coil - traditional - uses hot engine coolant to heat air
2. Evaporator coil - traditional - uses low-temp refrigerant to cool air
3. Condenser coil - new - uses high-temp refrigerant to heat air

(Side note: This is why you can't use an A/C box from a European PHEV to add dual zone climate controls to a HEV. The A/C boxes are physically different and incompatible with each other.)

In heating modes down to 0C(excluding defrost), the system can use both the condenser coil and the evaporator coil at the same time to first cool and dehumidify the air, then heat the air. The whole system contains a check valve, three magnetic valves, and three expansion valves. In contrast, I believe the A/C system in the Prius HEV just has a single expansion valve and none of the rest.

The PHEV heat pump system has a total of seven modes it can operate in:
1. Cooling - uses the evaporator coil to absorb heat from the cabin(which also dehumidifies the air)
2. Series heating - uses the evaporator coil to absorb heat/dehumidify the air and uses the condenser coil to heat the cabin
3. Parallel heating - similar function to series heating, but it divides the refrigerant path to create two separate heating systems*
4. Heating - just uses the condenser coil to heat the air(used below 0C - no dehumidifying)
5. Defrosting - just uses the condenser coil and also keeps the refrigerant pressure high in the outside coil to maximize cabin heat production - no dehumidifying
6. Cooling battery - uses the evaporator coil to cool the cabin and also runs a loop to the battery to cool it
7. Battery alone - shuts off the evaporator coil and just runs refrigerant through the battery - no dehumidifying

None of these modes includes the heater coil and the ICE. If there's a call for cabin heat and the temp is below -10C while the car is in EV mode, the ICE will kick in to provide heat. If the car is already in HV mode when the call for heat comes in, it gets a little more complicated depending on the exact climate settings selected on the dash and also the outside temp. Sometimes the car will use engine coolant for heat, and sometimes it will still use the heat pump.

The one thing the heat pump system can't do is heat the cabin and cool the battery at the same time. In that case, the ICE would have to run to provide hot engine coolant to the heater coil.


*Honestly, I don't fully understand how the parallel heating mode works and how exactly it's different than series heating. I know that series heating uses high, mid, and low pressure refrigerant, while parallel heating just uses high and low.

 

The cost of electricity is not the same accros the world. In Germany for instance, they pay 33 cents per kWh at home, easily 75cents in autobahn fast charging. No wonder why German hates EV. Diesel is cheaper there.

 

So this qualifies your statement about EV's vs Gassers here in the USA?
You didn't make that clear.

The cost of electricity is not the same across St Line Rd. here in the KC Metro area.
On the Missouri side I selected a rate plan that allows me to drive my Bolt for Less Than a Penny a Mile.

Owning an EV just keeps getting better !!!

Those wacky Germans..... Didn't they get the message that we have to - - - Stop Burning Stuff????

 

Believe it or not, now Yaris and Corolla hybrid is no. 2 sale in Europe. They love hybrid because gasoline is 2.5x more expensive, about $6 per gallon. Having hybrid is great there.
EV is too expensive to own with stupid depreciation and high electricity cost. No subsidies either.
Hybrid Honda/Toyota is the cheapest transportation besides train

 

What is the benefit of getting the Hybrid version of the same model? 20% fuel savings? Tops? Big Whoop.

Once you get an EV you won't care about this questionable resale value.
You're claiming cost per mile is less in a Gasser than an EV in Europe?
And as always,,,,, You can't make gasoline on your roof.
I understand apartment dwellers can't do solar or probably can't plug in an EV at night. So they're out....
Public charging is always more expensive than home charging. DCFC should be reserved for Road Trips !

Still, even Europeans know,,,,, WE HAVE TO STOP BURNING STUFF.

 

That is really bad for a newer Prius. I average 70 mpg.

It sounds like you are driving extremely hard and using the friction brakes instead of regenerative braking. If you drive hard, there is not much point in getting an HEV, as you are not using regenerative braking.

 

I don't like EV for simple reason. it's limited range, expensive to run, disposable. not everyone has garage or house. EV is just gimmick for most population.

 

That is because you have never driven one. If you have, then, you wouldn’t want to go back to heat engines. But then, perhaps you want to go back to steam engines.

 

1. The DCFC network is growing everyday, so,,, the same range as a gasser. Just longer 'fueling' stops, that's all.
2. Say What??? I'm paying less than 1 cent a mile. And no oil changes to dik with....True, you'll pay more on a road trip. True, not ideal for people that can't plug in at night, at home. But if you do have access to overnight charging, then it's ideal!
3. I'm at 122k miles on my Bolt. Only tires, cabin filter, wipers. No Problems, ever.
(but I am past due for the ATF to be changed in the Drive Unit. shame on me....
4. 'Most' of the population drives <80 miles a day.
I'd say it's ideal for 'Most of the Population', and the climate. (trigger warning....) We need to stop burning stuff.

Not to offend, but I can guess your favorite Gnews network.

 

I did rent it couple time. If is fun with a lot of torque. But I only tried Tesla. I just won't own it, renting it is Ok for a disposable car.

 

"disposable car"......



Which car will need many, many oil changes but will still have something fail on it's many, many moving parts?
You know, timing chain tensioner? Or on the Gen3 prius, the head gasket.
I'm pretty sure my drive unit will still be working fine when your old school ICE is a clattering pile of leaking, smoking, scrap metal.

Yes, some battery degradation happens to some EV's.
But not, How much to replace the battery pack.... But, When do you replace the battery pack?
I'll still love my EV when it has an 80% 'Fuel Tank'. Maybe even at 60%

 

I think with better rechargeable cells and better battery-management systems, most BEVs are lasting for a million miles and 20 years or more. Now, find an heat-engine car that lasts that long. Oil leaks and burn, ring, valvetrain, and bearing wear, compression losses, gasket issues, carbon buildup, emission-component failures, etc. typically limit the service life to 300,000 miles, and that's only for Toyotas and perhaps a few other OEMs, and you might still need major engine work meanwhile.

 

Electric Cars Could Last Much Longer Than You Think | WIRED

"In fact, they could still be very usable even after 20 years, potentially giving full-electric cars a longer useful life than many fossil-fuel equivalents."

 

My wag would be that for battery only cars to become dominant in the market, you'll first need to see an evolution in battery tech. There's a reason we grew up driving petrol powered cars. More than a century ago battery only cars were overpriced toys for well off people who didn't need a practical conveyance.

If battery tech allows far faster charging, a car won't need a half ton battery because more frequent short stops wouldn't require the kind of trip planning a half hour at a charger requires. The vehicle also won't need to be a 5000 pound dynamically compromised behemoth.

I don't doubt that an electric motor could last for 20 years -- gasoline engines do that too. I do wonder who will want a 20 year old interior in a car that has experienced 20 years of snow and salt.