2016 Prius 20% improvement in MPG?

Exactly my point

Hybrid Yaris is rated 3.3l/100km in EU cycle, and Prius is 3.9l/100km. Hybrid Yaris is marginally lighter then Prius C, but has much worse aerodynamics, so it would get worse MPG in EPA test than C.

Yet it is 20% better than regular Prius hatchback in EU cycle.

Different test = different results.

If you were to project EU results to US, Prius C should have been rated at 60MPG+. Is it?

 

So in post 33, you meant Yaris where you said Gen 3?

I can see that for very different cars, (eg. Prius C and Yaris) guessing the score on one test based on relative results on a very different test may not work out too well.

I would expect guessing scores based on much more similar cars (eg Gen 3 from Gen 2 or Gen 4 from Gen 3) may get quite a bit closer.

 

What I meant was that Prius C is rated more efficient on non-EPA cycle when compared to regular Gen3 Prius, and this is opposite/not true on EPA. Aqua/C are not sold in EU, so it is not direct comparison as due to tariff situation EU only gets hybrid Yaris which toyota builds in France. In Japan were Aqua and Prius are sold side by side Aqua also rated more efficient than Prius.

In real life US cycle Prius C gets worse MPG in cold weather, and equals or betters Prius in warmer temps if the speeds kept down. With A/C and short trips C is less efficient than Prius.

Point is that you cannot take results from EU or Japan and think they would work out to the same percentage in US.

 

So how much more efficient is the 2016 Prius "Eco" model going to be over the 2016 base Prius?
Also just by staying with a 195X65x15 tire over a 17 inch tire will probably give you at least 2-4 mpg increase
over a 17 inch tire, maybe more. I for one prefer the 195X65X15 as they are less money, longer tread life, and more
manufactures to choose from. Also with the 2016 Prius weighing less, 2,800-2900 lbs you really don't need a big tire.

Right now we have over 132,000 miles on our 2010 Prius. Last fillup was 54 mpg, calculated, this is normal real world driving.
I was concerned when we purchased it back in May, 2009 how long the battery would last. Well so far original 12 volt and traction battery perform just like when new. Perhaps the most trouble free car we have ever owned. Perhaps our next car will be a 2016 Prius Eco.
Just waiting for more info...

 

The 3rd gen 17" rim is very heavy too, that's a factor. I like ours tho.

Ours came with Michelin Pilot hx mxm4. They've been surprisingly uneventful, in a good way: seem easy rolling, long wearing, good cornering.

I see both the 15" and 17" 2016 in Vegas had Bridgestone Ecopia EP422 plus.

 

C/Aqua much closer to Gen2&1 than to Gen3. Gen3, Prius v/Alpha, Alrus and CT200 are much closer. Why? Because the share same powerplant and other design features.

 

well done.

 

New Toyota Aqua to Regain its Title as Most-Efficient Hybrid - autoevolution for Mobile

So Gen4 is gonna match Aqua's 37km/L in JC08 and Aqua is rated at what did you say in EPA? estimated 55-57MPG?

 

And yet you are comparing Gen2 with Gen3.

Gen2 has far more in common with Prius C than with Gen3.

Gen4 is built on completely different platform and likely has even less common with Gen3 than Gen2 had. We do not have any information, specs on the size of battery, voltage, current draw, ICE efficiency, size, rating, final drive ratio to even start to speculate on how they will react to different test conditions. Just simple "if you wish upon the star..."

There is just simply not enough information to draw any conclusions. Let's wait and see the results will be out soon enough.

 

There is nothing, 0, nada ... that can be concluded from NEDC

Here is example of completely the same drivetrain in three difernet cars:
2009 gen 3 Prius: 3,9 l/100 km
2011 gen 1 Auris hybrid: 3,8 l/100 km
2014 gen 2 Auris hybrid: 3,6 l/100 km

In reality Prius is the most efficient of this three, simply because of air drag.

 

I do agree that there is a possibility of Gen4 hitting 60MPG barrier.

If you take published ICE efficiency improvement 38% to 40% (5%), promised 20% weight reduction (good for 8 to 15% MPG improvement per EPA study) 20% doesn't seem to be far fetched. But Toyota failed miserably in the past with C in EPA certification, so let's wait and see.

It is very important psychologically for them to hit 60MPG barrier, the future of model may be depending on it.

 

There are also 2 more cars with the same powertrain sold in US: Prius v and Lexus CT200. Both have MPG rated in low 40s.

In case of Lexus Toyota had chosen to tune powerplant in favor of performance, not fuel economy, but in case of "v" this is just side effect. You can say that "v" is heavier, but 200lbs alone are not enough to explain 20% drop. I have loaded Gen3 with more than 200lbs and the drop was barely noticeable, 1-1.5mpg. Aerodynamics of "v" are worse, but Gen3 with bike attached is even worse than that. So the issue with "v" is the lower final drive, which was fitted to maintain the same level of performance.

The fact that there are rumors of Eco version out there tells me:
- Toyota understands the psychological value of hitting 60MPG target
- Target is acheavable
- They ran into issues with doing this either too much loss in performance, or too much cost hike.

So their strategy is to have 2 models base (value) and 60MPG Eco.

If EPA testing works out to magic 60MPG, than there will be an Eco version in US, if not there won't. They will decide to split alone plug/no plug lines as they did in the past.

If issue with loss of performance apparent, the oncoming magazine reviews will not have access to Eco model, it will be sort of "yeah and there is also Eco model we didn't test which gets whooping 60MPG". If cost is an issue there will be review, which would also state "..and btw there real life performance is as good or better"

 

To me, the INTERESTING thing is the manufacturers are allowed to use the mileage obtained by their best version on the placards of -all- the versions. Even though they may not be able to get that mileage.

 

You loose credibility by contradicting yourself.

In your post #48 you are directly comparing very different Gen1&2, 3 and oncoming Gen4, while stating that that this is not a valid comparison in post #44.

Toyota has too much riding on it, and being front runner they have a huge target drawn on their back. That alone ensures there will be no cheating. If anything EPA results will be downplayed.

There will be no Ford C-Max/Kia Soul scenario here for sure.

 

I don't see any such statement or inference in Post # 44. You may want to reassess your Post # 58