2015 Frankfurt/IAA Auto Show Prius Second Showing

Discussion in 'Gen 4 Prius Main Forum' started by iplug, Sep 14, 2015.

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  1. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    Thanks, Michael.

    At the Las Vegas auto show the front hood release was reportedly disabled. If that is no longer the case and you could take some pictures of the engine compartment, that would be excellent. Also, if there is a way to get a camera under the car to take some pictures of the rear axle that may help answer a few questions here about a potential e-4WD.

    Doubt the staff there are allowed to pass on anything more than has been officially announced, but one can try.
     
    #61 iplug, Sep 15, 2015
  2. energyandair

    energyandair Active Member

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    Thanks for the detailed review. The implications of load efficiencies are coming back to me now.

    Is this a fair summary of the situation?
    • Car motors operate at part load most of the time
    • The type of motor used by Tesla (induction motor) is less efficient at part load than full load
    • By using 2 motors rather than one and switching one off at lower loads, Tesla improve efficiency under most operating conditions.
    • The two motors could be set up to drive the front wheels together, to drive the front wheels individually, or to drive the front wheels with one motor and the rear wheels with the second motor which is the option Tesla has chosen
    • The type of motor used in the Prius thus far is most efficient at low loads so adding an extra motor would not provide this particular efficiency benefit (there are other potential benefits such as 4WD)
     
    #62 energyandair, Sep 15, 2015
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  3. energyandair

    energyandair Active Member

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    Thanks
    Some photos looking toward the rear from the drivers seat and from the center mirror would help tell us whether lines of sight to the rear and the rear quarters are improved, worse or much the same.
     
    #63 energyandair, Sep 15, 2015
  4. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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    Excellent. Try to bring along a "selfie-stick" and use it to take photos or a video of the underside of the car with the camera light enabled all along the car from front to back.

    But first, make sure there aren't any other people standing around in skirts or dresses or you might get in trouble.... :)
     
    #64 Jeff N, Sep 15, 2015
  5. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    Especially in a Tesla!

    Most motors are, but the curve is worse for a squirrel cage induction motor than most.

    To be clear, that was an example. I don't know that they actually do this but they could. What I'm sure they do is map the efficiency surface (efficiency versus power and RPM) and pick an optimal point for where they are currently operating.

    No, just one motor on the front and one on the back. So no opportunity to control one wheel at a time.

    I didn't say it wouldn't, but the effect would be reduced, possibly to zero or less if you include windage and friction losses, and also increased rolling and acceleration losses due to extra weight.
     
    #65 Lee Jay, Sep 15, 2015
  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Witness Leader

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    There's a pretty good pic of the rear underside, albeit a bit too closely cropped. Don't see anything untowards, tho I wouldn't know what to look for. Post 47 here:

    2016 Prius Eco | Page 3 | PriusChat

    (click image to get higher resolution)
     
    #66 Mendel Leisk, Sep 15, 2015
  7. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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    I think Tesla also uses different gear ratios for the front and back motors so that gives another dimension to play with and balance for best efficiency and torque at different vehicle speeds and motor rpms.

    The 2WD 2016 Volt gets some of this effect as well since it can use either or both motors in the transaxle together (attached to separate planetary gears sets) at somewhat different motor gear ratios when the gas engine is off. A one-way clutch prevents the gas engine from spinning backwards when the smaller motor is energized so it can add to the total torque output.

    A future Toyota PHEV with the 2 planetary gear set HSD could easily add a passive one-way clutch to the engine to play this game too, especially if it had battery output power large enough to come close to or exceed the larger motor (MG 2), even if they chose not to add something like the Volt's other two actively-controlled clutches.
     
    #67 Jeff N, Sep 15, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2015
  8. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    All of the under panel shielding hides the rear axle in this picture. Unclear if it would be able to be seen if taken under a rear wheel well.
     
    #68 iplug, Sep 15, 2015
  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Witness Leader

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    You can see the horizontal arms of the (independent) rear suspension. IS there a rear axle?
     
    #69 Mendel Leisk, Sep 15, 2015
  10. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    Well, the absence of one means no 4wd. The converse should also be true. Until now all Prii were FWD, so no rear axle.

    I may not be describing this with the appropriate mechanical terms, but we need to look for something like this axle shaft with CV boots on the end connecting to the rear tires, no? Should be able to find something like this on the front end.

    [​IMG]



    Here is apparently a boot from the front end of a prior gen Prius:
    [​IMG]

    Might be pretty hard to get a camera up inside the rear wheel well. Agree with selfie stick idea.
     
    #70 iplug, Sep 15, 2015
  11. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    All Prius up to now have a solid rear axle. Maybe you are confusing the axle with the half-shafts.
     
    #71 Lee Jay, Sep 15, 2015
  12. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    Perhaps right and should say drive axle (is that the right term?). Apparently this is a rear wheel from a prior gen Prius. I don't see a drive axle or anything similar.
    [​IMG]
     
    #72 iplug, Sep 15, 2015
  13. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    I think that channel on the right is the axle in that picture. It connects the two wheels together. It, of course, doesn't spin or carry drive power.
     
    #73 Lee Jay, Sep 15, 2015
  14. energyandair

    energyandair Active Member

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    The axle is the shaft that the wheel spins on. An axle may or may not spin itself. In the example shown each rear wheel has a separate axle that is just a few inches long.
     
    #74 energyandair, Sep 15, 2015
  15. Grus

    Grus Member

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    There is a black & white interior new Prius in 2015 Frankfurt/IAA Auto Show
    Captured some screens from the AutoMotoTube's Youtube video


    And for the record, the official TOYOTA Press Conference recorded by Motoren & Mehr
    no more details than the Press Release text ...
     
    #75 Grus, Sep 16, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2015
  16. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    That's a hub or spindle.
     
    #76 Lee Jay, Sep 16, 2015
  17. energyandair

    energyandair Active Member

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    #77 energyandair, Sep 16, 2015
  18. el Crucero

    el Crucero Senior Member

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    I see "backup sensors" on both the rear and front of the car! Great addition!
     
    #78 el Crucero, Sep 16, 2015
  19. Grus

    Grus Member

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    I have counted 12 sonar sensors from PriusChat's Las Vegas photos, although obviously they are for the upper models.
    CRAZY? Even current Lexus LS600hL "just" have 10 sonar sensors.
    Here is a mixed picture:
     
    #79 Grus, Sep 16, 2015
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  20. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    The European version has dual zone automatic climate control. The "Eco Heat/Cool" is incorporated into the "Auto" button. (You'll see "fast/eco" in small letters under "AUTO")
     
    #80 Tideland Prius, Sep 16, 2015
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