2013 Volt: 98MPGe, 38miles EV range

I think what john1702a is pretending is that all that matters to be "full power" is the power rating of the motor. Its a technical little semantic spin, that anyone can see through, but internet bloggers like to play that game. Its not clever at all, but hey, they have been doing it so long its hard to stop. He and USB have been corrected b4.

Full power means you can drive it like a car in the US. That may need more clarification, but the prius phv wouldn't make it on my on-ramps without turning the engine on.

 

Having spent my working life as an engineer, comments like this drive me nuts. Think!!!!! The cost of new vehicles is extremely dependent on volume and decades of manufacturing optimization. The Volt has a monster battery and it is going to take many years for the cost to get down to high volume levels. You think Toyota could make the same car vastly cheaper? The answer is no, they would have the same problem of very high battery production cost for quite a few years. Look at how much of a premium you pay on the PiP for it's extra battery capacity.....which is a lot less than the Volt. Connect the dots.

I would also point out that according to your logic, you must consider Tesla to be the most stupid car company to every have existed. What is your opinion of Tesla?

 

Since I too am an engineer, I have. It's quite clear a different approach could have been taken. But since it wasn't, yet the need still persists, something else must be done.

Engineers don't make excuses. They suggest new ideas. What do you think is reasonable for achieving high-volume sooner?

 

Their business-model is very different from GM. They're a specialty provider, depending more on deliver top-notch vehicles for a premium rather than competing directly with middle-market traditional vehicles.

 

A decade long project does not work if overreacting to every sales period becomes standard practice. The GM approach may be (Gasp!) focused on the long term engineering instead of todays marketing focus groups result. A new production car with a new big battery and vast amounts of electric motor technology is not going to be cheap. PERIOD. So what must any car company do to succeed with that tough obstacle?

Now to specifically answer your question. The problem with the Volt may not be the vehicle, it may be the decades of GM's substandard commitment to making high quality, high reliability cars. The biggest issue I would have with buying a Volt is not the price, it's that it is a GM vehicle. I want them to prove that this is a solid car. If Toyota were making the Volt, would sales today be different or the same? (KEY QUESTION!) So the approach I would advise is make the car rock solid reliable. Till then I will drive a Prius, but will watch the Volt very closely, not for technical minutia comparisons, but for overall car quality in the long term. That explains Toyota's success.

 

Yet Tesla is setting up for high volume manufacturing of the Model S and following models. They face the same hurdles, how to get sales with a expensive components, such as a huge battery. The one aspect of the Tesla business plan is that the reputation of "top-notch" (your term) must mean unquestionable good quality.

 

John, I too am very confused by the mention of 80hp, but I think I know what you meant. Your thinking however is flawed. The planetary gear set, the "power split device" if you will, is in no way capable of drawing anywhere near that much power and delivering to the wheels. It really just leaches some power off of it. That engine's primary purpose is to spin the generator and provide electricity for both the motor and the battery. These conditions are a last resort, except for the mountain mode, and hold mode. It seems that I have to keep repeating myself on here.

I also keep seeing new input, and I feel like a broken record repeating the same definitions, and explanations. On the topic of the cheaper, lower capacity version, it makes no sense! At that point it is the Prius market, and you are wasting some very expensive components that won't be able to be fully utilized with a smaller battery. You also need a certain amount of power available to accelerate and get the power ratings that you currently have. If you don't mind that sacrifice then you would really need to downsize the motor, as they would be overkill. So much of the equation changes for this particular car once you do that. It's much like the Prius, you can't be hasty to (also) say these same things about the Prius. It's a totally different car customized for different operation and power/battery amounts. Both have their merits, but are very different. The Volt project didn't just create this out of the blue, a lot of the components are similar to the Prius, and honestly wouldn't have happened without it. I will be the first to admit that. However, they are VERY different cars, and for a reason.

As for the increase in battery electric range, that is due to a chemical change. They improved the chemistry and even though it has the same capacity, it can utilize more of the battery as it is now safer to do so, while preserving the longevity of the battery! (Another reason Volt is expensive, it is over-engineered much like the Prius was!)

There are good and valid criticisms of the Volt and the Prius. Let's not go down the bad road of using the less accurate and worthy criticisms of both! I see the same thing on the Volt website. People dissing the Prius for the most absurd reasons, and people here dissing the Volt for the most absurd reasons. I will do this every day if I have to until we all come together. lol

 

This is what makes the Volt an EREV. It is electric first, gas later as a backup. The PHV Prius technically COULD be an EREV with the proper programming, however, it wouldn't perform as well. Obviously it's very efficient doing it's own thing, and doing it best!

 

38 kW is what Prius can currently draw from the battery-pack. To get additional electricity for the motor, it draws from the engine at the same time. A larger battery-pack later would change that equation.

That planning for the future has served Prius well.

Cost reduction and reliability emerged from the "overkill" approach. It has been proven senseable.

 

Brad,
Keep in mind that in the HSD, 28% of ICE torque is routed through the electric motor. The motor is sized for efficiency, reliability, noise, and maximum (ICE+battery) throughput.

 

I will not consider consider a Volt because it is GM, but only looking at it as a car, I'll be interested how its 15 year and 200k miles reliability turn out.

In the meantime, if I can fuel an E-car cleanly I'll consider Nissan or Honda; or prefer Toyota if they enter the EV market or bump the PiP up to 20+ AER.

 

I agree, the last two things that were posted, I cannot and would not argue with. They are valid points.

 

My republican riddled neighborhood Assn and I do not see eye to eye on PV. While PNM does indeed have a 'clean energy' program, it does not realize more clean energy on the grid for the extra cost.

I don't think the LEAF is in NM yet either, but both will be here in the not too distant future.

 

Drinnovation -- right about the solar rights act.
The problem, to borrow an engineering term, is the specific implementation. My Assn does not prohibit PV outright, but they encumber the installation with demands that make it unattractive. In my case they only agree to an install on my roof that does not show above the parapet. My arguments of efficiency and cost/damage to my foam roof fall on deaf ears. I *might* be able to win in court, but I am not willing to take the argument that far, and of course the Assn has lawyers on tap paid for by ... ... drums ... ... Assn fees. More productive I think will be to run for a spot on the architectural committee, but I will have to find the time first.

 

This was a tough one for me as well. I really didn't trust GM and strongly disliked the idea of giving them my business. However, stronger than my dislike of that was my dislike of using gasoline. If Toyota had a ~35 mile range extended range EV I would have bought it in a second. They didn't so I gave GM a shot. Very happy about it so far.

 

It was one of the reasons I leased my Volt. I figured if it didn't meet my expectations I wouldn't be married to it and could try something else in a couple years (also relieved some of my initial concerns on battery life, etc..., surely it could last 3 years after that its somebody else's problem).

 

I was very nervous about going with Chevy too... I am not a fan of GM. They are slowly changing my opinion... somewhat.

My friend hit the same problem with a neighborhood association. He wants to put solar on his house, but lives right next to a historic neighborhood in St. Louis. Lucky for him, he tried to join the "official association" and they would not let him because he is ont he very edge, and has a forward facing garage, and his house isn't brick masonry. So, even though his request to the city was denied because it had "Webster Groves" on his application, he can appeal it and show them that he is not in that neighborhood.

Side note, he actually has a separate meter for his garage. He his electric usage for his garage for 1 month is ridiculously low. Something like $30. I can check if anyone is interested. His backup plan is to put the solar on the garage in the back, but it won't be as efficient. I think for reasons of studying the electric production vs usage for the car it would be cool.