2012 Toyota Prius Plug-In: By The Numbers, Would It Work For You?

OK, first post here. Been reading just about everything for months. I've just gotten done logging 1 month of driving trips on the car I want to replace with a Prius, Pruis Plug In or a Prius C. Lets discuss the plug in here. We live in NJ. Cold in winter, hot in summer. Our current trips are 95% under 12 miles round trip with 50% of those 4 to 6 miles. (very convenient place to live) Other 5% trips are hwy, 100- 160 miles. Is the plug in a good idea with these cold weather short trips? Will the ICE turn on just for heat or AC and kill the mileage? Should I stay with the regular Prius? Thanks!

 

Do you park in the garage? You can prewarm with the energy from the grid before leaving. Prius PHV should work for you great but it wouldn't be worth getting a new car by taking the depreciation hit.

 

Considering 95% of your trips are under 12 miles I would think the plug-in would be best for you by far.

 

If you hate them, don't use their products.

How do you think your Prius would run without gas? Not so well.

If you really hated them, you'd go electric or natural gas.

You'd save money, and screw 'the man'.

Or, look at the real numbers. The average oil company makes $.062 cents per dollar of sales. That's a 6.2% margin. That's not extreme in any other industry.

Internet providers average a 25% profit, do you hate them? All those horrible servers sucking up energy?

Breweries run a 16.5% profit, I sure don't hate them for it. Do you?

Semiconductor/Memory makers pull in 16%. I love them for it, I stuff as much RAM in my systems as possible.

Computer manufacturers, 14%. Man, we should REALLY hate them. How about Apple, now the most wealthy company in the WORLD. (They passed Exxon). They're sitting on $76 *BILLION* in cash, that's more than the United States of America.

You must REALLY hate Steve Jobs!

Those pesky TV broadcast companies make 10.5% profit, time to boycott and turn that TV OFF!

Home health care providers make 6.9% profit. Man are they EVIL!!!!

But the oil companies only make an average 6.2% profit. Now why do you hate them again?

Without them, your car wouldn't run. Every SINGLE product in your house was brought to you using, you guessed it, Oil/Gas/Diesel. Your car wouldn't exist without it, and you'd have to walk/ride a bike to work.

If you want to do that, this is America, it's a free country, you're free to use an EV, Plug In Hybrid, Natural Gas powered vehicle or walk/bike to work.

But I'm guessing you don't, do you?

Let's stop the irrational ignorant hatred. :focus:

 

If your round trip distance is 4-6 miles, and you stop at the destination, you'll probably struggle to even get to 40 mpg from a regular Prius on such trips, especially any time the weather isn't 72°F and dry. The PHV is going to be the most efficient one for you. It may not be the cheapest, however - especially if you compare a new PHV versus a lightly-used 2010 or 2011 Prius, or a 2011 on closeout late this year or early next year.

What do you want to accomplish with your purchase? Do you want to reduce pollution? (it's possible, if your electricity comes primarily from dirty coal plants, for a gasoline engine to be cleaner than the PHV would be, but this varies greatly.) Reduce your use of gasoline? (Definitely go for the PHV.) Have the lowest total cost of ownership? (Could be either the Prius or the plug-in; not enough data on the Prius C yet, but it would probably be better than the plain Prius.) Have the lowest ongoing (e.g. fuel and oil) costs? (Definitely the PHV again.) Have the coolest car? (Either the PHV or the Prius C.)

 

Profit margin is just part of the picture, since a company's profit is a function of profit margin and volume. An oil company's margin may be slim, but since they produce such large quantities of petroleum products, they can still be far more profitable than companies with higher margin. Prime example is ExxonMobil which is the world's most profitable company in 2010 according to Forbes.

These alternatives may not work for everyone due to other constraints in life, such as money, family, requirements due to the job, less infrastructure for electric charging and CNG stations. Certainly those choices are available, but it's not a black and white choice.

It might be nice to be able to buy gasoline from a company that only produces from the US or just stable, peaceful countries. Such gasoline would command a price premium, but it would allow people to vote with their wallets if was worthwhile to them.

 

I am looking forward to finding out more about the Prius PHV. Thinking about trading in the 2004 for the PHV. Although for us, 20 miles of EV driving would be preferable. 13 would just be a bit low (we would go into gas mode quite a bit during the week). 20 EV miles would cover us for most of the trips during the week. We would go over that on weekends, but that is what the hybrid mode is for.

It really is a tough trade-off for Toyota. More EV miles would make the PHV an even more attractive car for more people (in my opinion). Problem is that making a larger/better battery will likely make the car cost more, and MIGHT reduce the MPG and overall efficiency of the car (assuming more EV miles would mean the car would be heavier). It would be a bummer if the PHV got worse MPG than the normal Prius (when in regular hybrid mode).

I just hope Toyota pushes the envelope and makes the most advanced vehicle possible. That's why I went with the Prius back in the day vs the Honda Civic Hybrid.

Either way, it will be a nice car and another good choice for consumers.

-Peter

 

What I have been hearing is that Toyota have been doing all sorts of things to bring the weight of the PHV down so that it will still get 50mph on the highway. If that's true then I would want to know what compromise they made shed the weight.

Noel

 

For all the people that talk about justifying the cost, I always have to ask a person why they are driving the car they drive. For example, if cost were the only factor in buying a car then everyone should be driving a used Honda Civic that they bought for $5,000 and drive for many years. Funny how most of the people that complain about justifying cost are the same people driving a big Caddilac Escalade or perhaps they are driving a vehicle with a set of wheels that cost as much as their car, or perhaps a stereo system that costs as much as their car. I'm quite satisfied to reply that I don't need to justify the cost, because it is what I WANT TO DRIVE. And that answer should be good enough.

 

Not that I am aware of. What did you hear?

 

Not to mention the environmental impact! Just one more reason to drive a Prius!

 

I bought the Prius for cost reasons. I don't want a $5k civic because it's old, isn't as safe, is going to cost me precious time getting repaired more often. An Escalade is bought because it has status, same reason a ferrari is bought (plus is fun). A plug in Prius only benefits over a normal one in money saved on gas. If that cannot be economically justified, as this is an economic argument (unlike spending $15k to put a big motor in a mustang, which buys the owner style and performance), then it is a poor purchase.

--

BTW I believe that this things charge-depleted mileage will be extremely close to the non-plug in Prius. Not only does this make sense intuitively but if this thing is supposed to be available soon there's no way in the world Toyota does not already know the figures, and they sure are not hyping it by announcing them, so I think the mileage increase will be extremely underwhelming to say the least. I'm thinking less than 5 mpg city improvement at the absolute most (and wouldn't surprise me if it's much less than that) and no more than 2-3 highway. These are my upper range guesses. I've been known to guess wrong before, though.

 

Some people will prefer the performance, not only on an economic basis but also because they prefer electric driving. I am sure there are many prius drivers who like the limited EV mode on the present model and are excited to get to do it longer and at higher speeds. Some would pay extra for that ability regardless of whether the net cost saved them a nickel.

 

You speak for yourself which is just fine. adric22 was making the point that people buy a car because it is what they WANT not just to save money. We all have different wants in a car. That is okay too. Toyota came up with a package in the Prius which sells to a lot of different people. That may be luck or it may be skill. Whatever, it works.

I really like my '06 Prius but I would like it a lot better if my trips up to ten miles were all electric. The PHV will do that for me. So I will use a little bit of gasoline, I will have a more useful car than an all electric with most of the benefits of all electric. It works for me.

 

I haven't been around much lately and I realize that the following "conversation" took place about four months ago ...

... but I want to speak up now that I've found the above discussion.

I'm leaning VERY heavily in favor with "Rebound" on this debate. Just the other day, I made a fairly short trip about town in our '08 Prius -- about 14 miles total -- and, according to the MFD, averaged about 67 mpg for the trip. In general, our Prius gets MUCH better than the EPA rated 48 mpg around town -- 55 mpg - 70 mpg -- as long as each trip is at least 5 to 6 miles in length. If a person is driving typically 7,500 miles per year AND is making, for the most part, 10 mile commutes to-and-from work in traffic similar to what I experience around Lafayette, then the so-called Hybrid Premium would "pay for itself" rather quickly; within a bit more than three years in OUR particular situation. At 100 miles per week in such commutes, our 1997 Stratus would consume about 6 gallons - 16-17 mpg 'round town - whereas the Prius would consume only abut 1.75. At current gasoline prices, that's a "savings" of about $16 per week / $825 per year.

As a "footnote" to the above ... after adjusting for inflation, our Prius was only about $2550 more in price when we bought it new in 2008, as compared to what we paid for our Stratus when we bought it new in 1997 ... AND the Prius we bought - Pkg 3 - has some substantial "upgrades" as compared to the base model Stratus we bought.

 

These arguments always boil down to the comparison car. Whether EV or *EV, I compare to a Prius hybrid, since that is the car I will buy if not a *EV.

If our old Subaru ever dies, and I find a way to put up PV on my home, I think I'll either:

1. Buy a mini EV for around time commuting, and use our '04 Prius for my long work trips;

or

2. Buy a Prius 'c' or HS for my long work trips, and convert the '04 Prius to plug-in for around town commuting.

 

Mini-E can't be bought (or did you mean just a sub-compact EV like Mitsu i ?).

 

^^ I meant Yaris or Fit sized.

 

The tax credit for this car is insanity. It's a Prius with a bigger battery; that's it. At least derive a true cost of ownership on the car's merits and nothing else.