2012 Toyota Prius Plug-In: 15 mile EV range, 87 MPGe, $32,000

Re: margins on nav systems

new Toyota navs are now among cheapest in the industry.
I dont think they had crazy premiums of navs at all. In fact, how would someone know that info? They would have to work at Nissan procurement office in Japan. Dealer has no idea what production costs of the vehicle are.

Yes, navs are way overpriced compared to the portable ones, but i have yet to see some manufacturer be able to drastically reduce cost of nav, without introducing new unit.

Every time toyota dropped the cost of accessory nav units, it was actually brand new nav unit.

 

California Air Resources Board ( CARB ) awards zero emission range credit on the basis of the distance a PHEV can be driven all-electrically over repetitions of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency’s (EPA’s) standard Urban Dynamometer Driving Schedule (UDDS).​

Source

Perhaps it is 15 miles under UDDS cycle to get the ZEV credit. Do you know what is Volt's EV range under UDDS cycle?

 

I have no idea. I've never seen EPA fuel economy results broken down to that level of detail. I don't know whether they are available online anywhere.

 

If my mobile phone network can throw on two nav programs on my phone for free that work very well, then how come Toyota can't come up with one that doesn't cost a fortune!? They could if they wanted but they use it as a way of making easy money off the foolish.

There is no way I was going to pay £1,000 for a Toyota SatNav when I can get a TomTom for £100. One costs £250 for an updated disc every 18 months and the other costs £25 for 4 new maps in 12 months.

I'll let you work it out!?!

 

which auto mfg. offers the cheapest nav?

 

Re: margins on nav systems

IIRC, the Nissan guy (friend of my friend) sounded like he was in some marketing or product management role, so should have some idea. I'm pretty sure he wasn't an employee at a dealership. I can double check.

PNDs can be had for dirt cheap in the US, esp. if you go lower end. http://www.amazon.com/Garmin-n%C3%BCvi-3-5-Inch-Portable-Navigator/dp/B001U0O7QW is $72.39 right now and it will even say street names. (I have one of these. I got it free from my bank.) One can buy lifetime updates for NA for $70 right now at http://www.amazon.com/Garmin-n%C3%BCMaps-Lifetime-America-Updates/dp/B001PKTFM8/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1317256870&sr=1-1.

(Over here, Garmin uses Navteq maps in the US which are superior to Teleatlas, for the US.)

If I go to Portable GPS: Portable GPS Systems & Navigation - Best Buy (not sure if this link will work for you) and sort by price, excluding the zumo motorcycle one and some side thermal imaging one, the most expensive is one from Escort for $650 that includes radar and laser detection. Then, if you exclude the truck ones, the next one down is $400 for the nuvi 3490LMT.

 

I am surprised that car manufacturers have not partnered up with cellular companies to push software software updates over the air. Its got yup be cheaper than having them all go to the dealers. This would allow much cheaper and more timlier updates of maps on nav system s

 

Easy. The map updates are too big to download over 3G and they can sell DVDs for $250. They are not interested in making it cheaper.

 

They want you to go to the dealer so the dealer can sell you other things and the next car.

My aftermarket updates with sd cards, and you can download if you don't want to go to the store or get it in the mail.

 

Plus, many of those cheaper GPS's come with lifetime maps.
Factory installed ones are just a money maker that is commonly bundled with some other desirable feature, like bluetooth, to increase the bottom line.

 

that "must" be the reason why Verizon is able to do it since they have the greatest 3G network and if you have any doubts about that, just ask them.

but then again, are we simply re-downloading an entirely new copy of a 20 GB DVD? or a 25 MB edit of the existing data?

**edit**
hey, on my eNV Touch!! guess what?? it has download history and it seems that the average map update for VZ Navigator only seems to be about 2.2 to 3.8 MB!! wow, that is awesome. it sounds like Car Manufacturers could EASILY do this IF they wanted to.

obtw; when i got my 2010 Prius, i posted EXTENSIVELY on how much more updated VZ Nav was over the Prius Nav. in fact, i showed a screen shot of both in a neighborhood that had paved streets but no completed houses. they are complete now, but they were just foundations back in 2009. but the Prius Nav had me sitting in the middle of a field more than a mile from the nearest street

so ya, there are reasons why the map updates are not done wirelessly but betting the size of the update is not it

 

This makes sense. I wonder if this is one of the reasons Toyota added a "EV-City" mode to the European version, that, according to Toyota: permits greater use of the accelerator before the engine is started.

 

Re: margins on nav systems

i am quite aware of all of that .

What I am saying is that Toyota doesnt buy them at $100.

I believe new Entune addon will be quite affordable, at least in europe it is €500 extra.
But again, they will keep selling older accessory navs at much higher prices, despite having less features. That leads me to believe that their pricing is much higher. Why? Who knows... warranties, marketing, r&d for lower number of units, who really knows.

 

The factory nav does not do partial updates. I reads the DVD, so for updates, you have to get a whole new DVD. Verizon Navigator stores the maps on their own servers, not on your phone, so you only get part of your current route temporarily saved on the phone and the rest streams to you over 3G. If you drive out of the data coverage area, you can't use Verizon Navigator.

 

very common misconception. it still works when outside the signal coverage area. it cannot do reroutes without a signal, but it can navigate you without issue since it does use GPS for location services.

so a NAV with a few GB of flash memory at the cost of $100 bucks cannot be...oh wait!! $100 buys SEVERAL GB of flash.

i think its car manufacturers being pretty fricking slow to move to the 21st century more than any technological or cost hurdle.

 

It's still an issue. There is a limit of how much of or how long of a route Verizon Navigator allows you to download to the phone, there is no guarantee you will not have to reroute or take a detour partway through your route and you may need to start a route while outside the data coverage area if you take a trip outside of the cell coverage map.
There are some car manufactures that offer navigation maps on SD cards, but they still charge for a new SD card when you have a map update. They do not give you a writable SD card that just changes part of the data.
Even when you buy a portable nav unit like a Garmin, you download a whole new map of several hundred megs or a few gigabytes for every update. The map updates for a Garmin or TomTom are much cheaper than what Toyota charges for a map DVD, but they are still gigantic in size and not practical to download over a mobile data connection.

 

Re: margins on nav systems

Then what are you saying they do buy them at?

 

2012 Toyota Prius Plug-in to launch in Japan, Europe in January

 

ya ya gotcha. your way works too. i still goto the record store...no, umm, video store...no, umm, ya, that getting the disc....ya i still do that. well, did it last year...no, umm, hmmm, oh wait!!

i did buy a disc!! a Wii game in 2010!! so ya!! i still buy discs!