2010 Prius Plug-In - 60 MPH EV, 13 Mile Range, 1.5 Hour Recharge

See Doug?
THIS thread has grown some mighty hairy legs, eh? Other than the sticky (non Prius) gas pedal, THIS is what us Toyota Fans are MOST interested in! Time to shove the thread in front of the corporate shmoies so they'll understand THIS really IS what we want! Can you imagine? Since corporate toyota under- estimated how popular the REGULARE Prius would become ... just THINK how the PHEV will fly off the shelves!

 

heavier battery pack yes, but also greater charge density

 

I don't know that the first version of anyone's plug in will sell like hot cakes--they will sell to the fanatics like many of us.
But I do think by the second generation, they WILL sell like hot cakes.
Doug, in case you care, I think that the 13 mile all-electric plug-in will be a good start, but won't be enough to sell at the level of the current Prius Gen III.
But once you get it to the point that the entire slightly-longer-than average commute can be done on the plug in power alone, with longer trips done by hybrid, you will have a huge, huge winner.
That's my bet.

 

It did sound like market research.

I'd like a stronger motor and more battery power. It should be quite doable in the next 2 years. In fact you could probably put a higher hp slightly less efficient motor if it is being used less. I agree what is discussed in the test phase doesn't sound like much of an improvement on the current prius. LIon's should get more affordable. I would be happy to plug it in at night.

btw: hot cakes don't sell very well here. A plug in hybrid with better performance and a 20 mile range electric range would sell well.

 

I have a follow up question. Since the PHV pack is more powerful. Will Prius PHV accelerate faster? In another word, will the peak combined horsepower be higher?

 

I bet the PHV will accelerate faster and the peak combined horsepower will be higher.
Please remember the Gen2 prototype PHV peak combined horsepower is 100kW comparing to the normal 82kW.
TOYOTA: News Releases: plug-in hybrid vehicle

Ken@Japan

 

Not necessarily.

1st:
As stated above, the battery is heavier, that should reduce the mileage.

2nd
Also, you only need so much boost - say for climbing a small hill. For optimal performance, you don't need a megaboost to climb a mountain because the penalty is carrying the megaboost battery.

3rd
Boosting is already wasting energy. I believe the optimal is to drive the car slowly with the gas engine. There is loss associated with converting gasoline to electricity. Loss involved with storing electricity in a battery. Loss in retrieving energy from a battery. That is why you won't get optimal mpg by charging the battery first with the internal combustion engine and driving in EV mode. Driving as much as possible in EV mode will not get you better mileage.

Charging the battery via plug in is another matter.

I guess the ultimate question is whether the current Prius has the optimal sized battery for a hybrid (not a plug in) or whether the battery holds a smaller than optimal charge due to cost/design consideration. In the case where the battery is smaller than optimal, having a bigger battery will help. I think the truth is probably a trade secret.

 

yes battery is heavier, but still holds more charge per weight. iow, higher charge density. there is still a weight penalty, but having had the same weight penalty plus (passengers) i can say, it will not affect mileage to any extreme degree.

yes, using the stored charge is not a an efficient way to go, IF you burned gas to store that charge. the fact that it came from the wall only means ALL the charge will be used instead of burning gas.

BUT, we can talk about it forever, until we get one on the road, only then will we know since there is a "sweet spot" for charge storage verses weight issues.

 

I would like a mode that at 30 mph and above, the engine would come on IN IDLE to warm-up the block. Not until the engine is throughly warmed would it then shift into normal hybrid mode. This solves the mileage impact of warm-up by letting it happen while rolling on to work. Once the car is working in hybrid mode, it does NOT charge the battery from the engine. Only regenerative braking adds charge to the battery.

Bob Wilson

 

HV mode button is a must. Now, we are backward where in the normal Prius there is an EV mode button.

It is a must for people with long commute, especially when plugging in at work is not possible. HV button would allow the driver to save the charge for the return trip.

The driver would know the usual places in the route suitable for best use of the PHV pack.

 

I have a different opinion.
Let's assume we have 3kWh usable battery capacity which is equivalent to 0.2 gallon of extra gasoline in 37% efficiency.
We don't have to leave the extra gasoline for later use.
If I were a PHV driver, I use the extra gasoline first. If the initial driving was on over 62mph highway, the extra gasoline also assist the ICE and I can save 0.2 gallon of gas for the driving.

In another story, if you drive an EV+genset series hybrid (like GM's Volt), do you start your genset for the initial driving and keep the battery level full for later use?
In my thinking, I'll use the battery power first.

Ken@Japan

 

The battery is not being optimized for weight, it is much smaller than it would be if weight was the main consideration. It looks like the choice was made by price and size. From the video it is about 5kwhm (four times more capacity than the Nimh 1.310kwh), which should be around 50kg, only a little heavier than the current battery. The bigger the battery the higher the price.

 

Ken,

I have a 84 miles round trip commute. Around 60 miles are at highway speed and 24 miles at city speed. The time that I spend are reverse. I spend 45 minutes at highway speed but 75 minutes at city speed.

If I were to use PHV pack at highway speed, it would be drained in 13 minutes. If I use it at city speed, it will last about 40 minutes.

I would use PHV pack at low speed (city traffic jams) and run HV mode on the highway where ICE can be very efficient.

 

A regular Prius can be maximized (mpg wise) by anyone...just get in and drive. You're always getting maximum mpg. but a PHEV can only be maximized by someone that has pug-in capability. LOTS of people don't have a driveway or garage with an outlet...or a place at work. And if you are on a long trip...no plug. No plug abailable= 350 lbs dead weight. I have a garage and a place to plug in at work...and I still see issues.

 

Count me in. Yea, I'll begin my trip in freezing mode having just rolled off the bed not so long ago. My body temperature has not risen yet. At that point, mpg is not on my mind. I am not thinking about warming up the engine and I doubt many regular Joes are thinking about warming up the engine. People want to warm up the passenger compartment. That's why there is a market for remote starters.

And then there are social situations. On a freezing day, you take a client to lunch from your office. I suppose it is bad enough you are not driving a limo to take your client out. I think it is worse if you drive all the way to lunch and the car is still frozen. They will remember you all right. And people with kids and infants probably wants to heat up ASAP too. What I am getting at is that most people want heat before any sort of performance although they may not say it because the possibilities of driving an ice car has not cross their minds.

 

I agree with your entire post. Also, even if the government mandates a plug for free at work, it will not solve all the problems. Our electricity grid is already insufficient. If all the people who works 9 to 5 all plug in at 9 AM, or even if they manage to stagger it, it will still increase peak energy usage. So we would have to build more coal plants and nuclear plants to keep up.

Could you imagine if everyone in an office building brings in a battery to charge up during the day - we will have a blackout for sure. In my office building, I am sure the circuit will blow if everyone uses a small electic heater.

 

So, is the glass half empty, or full?



iow, yes, there will always be problems ... issues ... challenges ... or (if one has a rosy/optimistic outlook) OPORTUNITIES in life. Some folks don't have a place to plugin? Heck, some folks don't have a roof over their head. And those folks won't be purchasing a phev either ... as a phev is for the folks that CAN find a way ... just like they found a way to be able to afford a phev in the 1st place.

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Not really. You still have the benefit of the more powerful battery pack that it can also capture more energy from braking. Since the pack replace the spare tire, the extra weight should be a lot less than 350 lbs.

 

I like the way usbseawolf thinks. Drive the car -- HV, PHV -- according to it's strengths and the task at hand.