2010 Prius Models and Option Packages

That does make perfect sense, but I don't understand how thats true?

I for one, have "never" been asked what I prefer?.. Have you?
How do they know if we didn't buy because the package didn't fit our needs?.. where is the feedback mechanism?.... this forum?

Even on this forum, we were not asked... the packages was a surprise to us all.

I can see info gathered from years of trial and error, but the 2010 has totally new amenities and interior styling as well as ongoing issues we have been struggling with for years that have still not been addresses.. such as a simple thing of leather.

The popularity of the prius is due to its quality and uniqueness.. but now that more competition is coming into the picture. options are more important than ever before for initial buyer attraction IMO.

I'm not trying to be self serving here... I'm just trying to give Toyota the vantage point of the lowly buyer... the one that makes it all happen!

Just "who" are they consulting with before they make these decisions?... because some of them just don't make any sense.
Seems every buyer has to compromise the vision of what his or her Dream car is based on existing options.

Isn't it a crime to have to live without something you can have if you have the money to buy it?... it not only does Toyota a disservice from lost sales, but the buyer is left short of total satisfaction.

Toyota has accomplished some amazing feats... this little hurtle shouldn't be too hard for them!

I guess its all a matter of how motivated they are. Because the ability and the technology is there.

Cost should not be an issue... if a certain combination is too expensive, most people won't buy it. But why send those discriminate buyers who often have the most money away to other vendors?

Why can't we have our cake and eat it too if we are willing to pay for it? Can't anything be solved with money?

 

I have to disagree with you on this one. Before foreign competition, your dealer could custom order any combo of options from a big 3 factory for you. I remember buying a Jeep Cherokee that way about 25 years ago.

It was the imports that started limited sets of options. Honda is rather extreme on this. I looked at the Acura TSX which comes in one rather well equipped trim level with a nav/tech package as the only option. You can't buy that car without leather or sunroof. Cheaper Hondas have a few more packages but not a lot.

That said, I too am disappointed with the choices. The 2010 Prius must be the only model in the U.S. that requires Nav if you want a sun roof. That makes getting the sun roof awfully expensive. I will probably wait to see if they unbundle that one.

The frustrating thing is that the Prius is so unique. Time will tell whether that will allow Toyota to keep the packages as they are.

Roy

 

This is a dynamic process that will continue for the next 5 years. Initially the product planning team had to make some assumptions based on marketing studies, prior Prius sales, input from sites such as PC and direct discussions with buyers.

But the new features are just that, new. These new features have no history and only a few inklings of what the general population wants. Thus in the beginning the ordering is like playing darts in a dark bar. After a time from the 'turn rate' on certain colors/packages/features, continual marketing studies and comments herein certain preferences will begin to rise up. This takes the better part of 2 yrs. Then for the final 3+ yrs the format of the packages is fairly standardized.

To answer your question about 'wanting your cake' if you're willing to pay the price this is not part of Toyota's methodology. Toyota and Honda have mastered the production practice of making the same product the same way with minimal variations over and over and over and over...... For this reason we get the Toyota's with limited packages and we get Honda's with no packages.

At the other end of the spectrum are the D3 where you can order polka-dotted, zebra-skinned, Corvettes or F150's with hundreds of thousands ( not kidding here ) of possible variations. But the D3 pay the price for these inefficiencies.

To get a non-standard feature from Toyota there is always the aftermarket option from the Parts Dept ( Toyota supporting the local retailers ).

 

DeadPhish: Your post appeared immediately after mine. We are basically making the same point. Unfortunately, aftermarket doesn't take care of my gripe which is wanting a sunroof without Nav.

Roy

 

Without getting into a whole new topic, I would think the variability of options on American made cars is one of the things that helped keep them afloat for so long, whereas the Foreign manufacturers flourished on merit of quality, dependability, longevity, and efficiency.

Just because they once outgunned the American manufactures that refused to think ahead and exhibit creativity, and cutting edge technology but rather kept making the same vehicle over and over with a different body and options, doesn't mean they will now win from having "old thinking" and refusing to be innovative to meet the customers fancies.

Heck, options is the only thing the American manufacturers had going for them... thats why they had to capitalize on it!

As Americans, we tend to be colorful "nice word for spoiled!" and like our options and amenities... especially if we are going to pay 20 - 30+ thousand for it.
Transportation has become much much more than just transportation like the old days!
Although there has always been an element of pride, now it is an experience of comfort, pleasure, and sheer entertainment also!

We still need to admit that options have always been an appealing attraction for newcomers as well as the faithful and not assume that Toyotas strength will never go unrivaled....
like I said, we now have competition in the market for hybrids... a few of which are worth raising an eyebrow over and its only going to get worse.

If Toyota wants to capitalize on their options, they need to do just that.

Being successful in this business is all about figuring out what the demand is.. and then meeting that demand without costing an arm and a leg.

I really think this is just thought "out of the box" rather than it honestly being an issue that has real obstacles of price.

True, it always cost a little to retool and do new setups... but if Toyota was willing to virtually remake the whole hybrid system in one year, this shouldn't be a problem for such a noble and able company to give us the options we want that they already make anyway.

 

Have you actually looked to see how 'valuable' the fog lights are? I'm 6'2" and I can BARELY see where the extra light hits the road in the current generation. They don't add anything in the fog, the headlights are already refracting all over the place. And they can't be used as DRLs (without a owner hack mod).

To each our own of course, but I sure wouldn't base a purchase on the fog lights Who knows, maybe the fogs in the 2010 might actually do something useful.

 

Again I agree, barring the owner turning them into driving lights or drastically changing their output, they are almost merely cosmetic.
Thats why I'm not sweating them on the 2010 package on option B.. I will just add what I want later and run a switch.

The area they light you have already hit by the time you see it! LOL!

 

Don't tell me there's yet another difference between the European version and the American version here.

My fog lights work as supposed to. They lit the road ahead and most importantly they lit the road shoulder so that I can see where the road ends and keep right.

Are you sure you don't need to take your Prius to the shop for fog lights alignment?

 

This is one of those initial new features to which I referred. Toyota has never offered a solar sunroof package before on any vehicle. Initially they are bundling it with the Navi.

If it turns out that there is enough demand for just the SRP without the Navi then they will do it. The goal afterall is to sell as many vehicles as possible not to put hinderances in the way of the buying public. As I mentioned in the other pricing thread the key word here initially is: PATIENCE.

There is no technical reason why the Navi can't be unbundled from the SRP. It is afterall just a plugin option. A standard audio could be plugged in its place.

Again if there is enough demand for the SRP sans Navi I'm certain that it will happen...but it might be next year. If OTOH the public is snapping up these SRP + Navi packages faster than they can be made...ah well...then that demand that will be served first; i.e. the greater number of buyers.

 

You took the words right out of my mouth. I too have no idea who decides contents of packages. I wish they would ask me so I could lead them in the right direction.
I am wiling to order my car the way I want and wait the time it takes to get it the way I want. That's how I've done it in the past with other manufacturers and I never had to settle.

My current Prius is great, but it lacks a moonroof and heated seats as well as height adjustments to the seats. I DO have fog lamps and I am not willing to give them up for a cheap looking plastic plug to cheapen the look of the front end; especially when spending over $30,000 for a vehicle. Every time I look at the front void of no fog lamps, I will hate the look of the car.

I just went to price a new mini convertible and the car is ordered the way you want. You pick the options and wait 6 weeks to get the car. Sounds good to me.

It's one thing when you are buying an inexpensive vehicle, to accept the car as built. When purchasing a car as expensive as a loaded Prius, one should not have to settle.

I hope Toyota is listening.

 

Hi Erica and Doug,

Can you please contact someone in Japan and let me know if I can purchase the wiring, switch, and lamps to have fog lamps installed in a moonroof/nav/leather 2010 Prius. Brian Diel was nice enough to get back to me today and inform me that Toyota won't build the car the way I want by just adding fog lamps.

I would appreciate a response as soon as possible to if need be, I can make an alternate purchase instead of a Prius.

Thank you for your help,
Dr. William B. Kayen

 

The fallacy in your argument is that people compromise on what they want, what they are willing to do without and what they are willing to pay for even though they don't want it. Years (and I mean YEARS) ago, if you bought a Detroit car and wanted a rear window defroster, you paid for pin stripes. NO choice, high profit for an almost no cost to them item in the package that had NO logical connection to the item you wanted.

The "turn rate of colors/packages/features" will be EXACTLY what Toyota produces at the factory. Off the line, on the boat, to the dealer and down the call list until someone is willing to take THAT car. The dealers aren't sending your 'request' to Japan. The most popular color in 2004 was silver because half the cars made were painted silver. It had nothing to do with people's specific desires, just what they were willing to buy when it wasn't what they really wanted. My Driftwood, given a choice (and not waiting who knows how long for one to come in with acceptable features) would have been Seaside. There is no 'learning via sales figures' with that model.

They could have gotten a REALLY GOOD feel for what people want if they just sent a survey to every current Prius owner last year with a 0-10 scale for each available feature in the 2010. They could have included some "maybe available" options just to see what people WANT. Obviously the 0-10 rating might change based on the cost, but it would be better than packaging what they THINK people would want. They don't have to ask for a wish list, though space for such things would be good. I don't care squat about the available solar venting roof, give me that non-existent auto grill block!!

They could at least do a semi custom order process. The seats must be about the last things they put in the car, give those who want leather the ability to choose it. That would, of course, mess up the 'throw them all on a ship and let the regions figure out where to deliver them' process.

 

Now thats an excellent question... there are numerous complaints on this end about the fog lights being nutured. Yes I can tell they are on, but I honestly see better by putting my HID lamps on bright as they are powerful enough to cut through the fog better than the fog lights.

Normally I would say its easier for others to see you if the fog lights were amber since that frequency penetrates particles better, but they are not even amber!... more like a washed out driving light with no power. Nor are they bright enough to make the distance based on color alone.
They should be more than looks but be functional too. It wouldn't be the first time we got less than here in America... I guess they figure it doesn't matter to us here because its not so foggy as in Portugal? LOL!

Same as the guy who uses a sunroof obviously never has to deal with fog so he doesn't need them at all?... maybe they're too heavy!
Hate to sound so negative.. so I'll shut up.

 

Yes and No IMO. The turn rate will be known pretty quickly after the initial batch of orders begins to hit the shores and people begin test driving the initial arrivals.

Some vehicles will fly off the truck and right into the buyers' hands with 0 days in inventory. Some will be sold soon after arrival with maybe 7 days in inventory and some may last all of 2-4 weeks. If those latter types of packages are consistently staying longer in inventory while the others are flying off the lots I'm certain that adjustments will be made.

In 2002 we went through a launch fiasco with the current Gen 4Runner. Toyota made an initial assessment that the buyers would like the 4Runner to look like the Jeep GC with unpainted rubber flares over the wheels. The public hated them...with a passion. At that time the 4Runner was a cash machine and everybody was waiting. What a dud. Women hated the look, so men didn't buy any. Not a joke. After 8 weeks of feedback Toyota took the decision to paint all the future vehicles....BLAM problem solved. Sales continued apace as before and it took us nearly a year to blow out all the 4Runners without paint on the flares.

Rest assured that the feedback from the stores will be heard.

2nd example...the 2004 Prius!!! Initially it was expected to sell 35000 units in the US. The entire 35000 units planned to be shipped here in 2004 were sold in 60 days! Oops. They increased the production and sales to 59000 units in 2004, then to 75000 units for 2005, then to 100,000 units in 2006. Initially we got a range of packages in 2004 but the demand was 80+% for the top package with Navi + BT. They changed this on the fly as well. By 2006 the composition of the packages had changed to where it was more balanced and the base packages predominated.

This is a very fluid and dynamic process.

I think that the survey to former owners is a good idea but I wouldn't be surprised if such an operation was done already. It can be done statistically via mail or it can be done in focus groups. I don't have any data on that and probably won't being so far away on the EC.

Semi custom order process for vehicles made in Japan is very unlikely. I've never seen it on any vehicle in the 10 yrs I've been working here. Now vehicles made in NA it's a different story. Semi-custom-made is possible.

 

Thanks for your reply Doug... as you already know, we are a passionate bunch here.
It was nice to be able to meet you at Detroit.
I feel like we can be frank and honest here, although I know you may be limited as to what you can say, I still want to express concerns I think others also reflect.

Can you shed some light exactly How Toyota tests the market before they make decisions of what options will be included in what packages?

Maybe us geeks do not represent a viable sample of the nations preferences, but its apparent that there is some mode of input in play that brings about these decisions.

Does it do any good for us to put in input, or are the decisions already made beyond our influence anyway?

I've had CEO's gather together meetings to get the input of the staff, but unknown to the staff, the real decisions were already made behind the scenes without interest in staff input and the meeting was just lip service to make the staff feel like they had a part.

What role can we play in this if any? and if so, at what point does that input matter verses being too late to make any real changes?

We don't want to gripe about issues that cannot and will not be addressed because of higher powers that be, but we want to be helpful if possible and would be delighted if it were possible to be a part in making Toyota better.

 

Well Doug, its a real treat just knowing you guys are reading our comments... let alone actually chiming in and commenting.

We have been very grateful for Toyotas hospitality to allow you to do so. I know PC is honored to host such conversation also.

I think its easy for us to get presumptuous in thinking the world revolves around our thoughts when in reality, Toyota is very big and worldwide with many hands in many pots.

Its true, we are some of your most loyal and best supporters that will defend Toyotas honor to the death.... that makes us family....

And like most families, things can get intense at times as we relate in the comfort of our livingroom here on PC.

I appreciate you giving us a peek into what makes the product happen... I guess it makes perfect sense that it would take about 4 years for new thought to manifest.

In a way... I feel like we are a bunch of kids as we defend Toyotas honor, bragging about how our dad is better than the competitors.

But its true! I've never been able to sell anything I didn't believe in, but we all believe in Toyota and I think we just want it to stay on top and shine the way for the world as its done so far!..... maybe more than Toyota does "it feels".

Your quite the professional for being so graceful and not taking anything personal as we exhibit our frustrations and being the nice guy you are!

I indeed understand timing is everything!.... especially when you cross the freeway!

There must be tremendous resistance to buck against the norm and bring in cutting edge technology that only upsets the big oil money and competition.

We are all proud of Toyota and appreciate your presence.

It would be a crime for Toyota to withdraw your input and your peering into the minds of the real drivers of the world.

I think as long as we know your limitations and "our" limitations we will all work in earnest to help you accomplish your goals since that is also fulfilling ours goals.

I think we are all on the same page, its just that we can see most of the page you guys get to see and so its easy to fall to guessing the vision of Toyota!

Thanks again for your interest in PC and hanging in there with us.