2010 Plug-in Prius will have 12.4mile EV range

thats same great information
do you now if this is from the gen2 prototype plugins? or already from the LiOn gen 3 priusses?

 

Excellent scoop Ken1784, well found!

As for the discussion regarding likely battery pack size of the Prius PHEV, the published electricity consumption figures for the combined driving cycle are 6 miles per kWh for Mitsubishi's MiEV, and 5 miles per kWh for the Tesla EV. GM's Volt mule (which is a heavy car) is also doing 5 miles per kWh.

In theory then, 12.4 miles could be achieved with as little as 2.5 kWh available energy. For longevity and power output purposes however, the pack would have to be a good bit larger than this, so Toyota could easily manage the 12.4 miles range with a 4 kWh pack (and 40 kW output).

Incidentally, BYD are currently manufacturing LiFePO4 for $300 per kWh, although it is rumoured that Panasonic EV are still at around $550 per kWh for their li-ion solution which would put a 4 kWh pack at around $2,200 factory cost.

 

Drive 7 miles, plug in, drive 7 miles, plug in. Use no gas.
Alternatively only charge at home, drive 2 miles to warm up for heater or cool cab with AC then use AC for the rest of the journey, repeat to get home then charge. If you run out of charge before you get home the ICE will get you home.

I'd also use petrol engine for steep hills.

 

Does someone have a recent link to a engineering report that discusses battery size (kw-hr) and driving range for plug-in hybrid?

 

If true then the bail out tax credit for PHEV will cover the cost. For the miles per kwh you provided, does it include the hotel load?

 

The miles per kWh figure that EV/PHEV manufacturers publish is measured on the same type of driving cycle as the standard (EPA or EU) test driving cycles for gasoline vehicles. It's based on quite gentle driving of course, and real-life driving would use more electricity per mile if you drove quickly, but it does include all accessories while driving that are on in the gasoline tests.

In short, if you can match or beat the EPA rating in a gasoline vehicle, you'll probably manage the same in an EV or PHEV.

A separate problem that is specific to the Tesla, however, is that while it is sitting in the garage, charging or otherwise, it's constantly using power to keep the battery pack at a constant temperature. This uses quite a lot of electricity and a fair number of owners have been upset by this!

 

I guess that's the price to pay for being the performance roadster. Volt starts it's combustion engine to warm up the battery pack. Since the Roadster is a pure EV without ICE, that seems to be the solution.

 

12.5 mile maximum sounds good to me, if the premium is not huge.I would assume it also meens more energy recouped via braking (if driving in hilly area) and more energy available for accelerating if batteries are full (longer time).

i am not willing to pay 10k for 40 mile range... for most times i drive less than 10 miles in a day, but even if i drove 30 miles in a day, it would mean 1/3 of it was "free".

i wonder if in the future, they would made it so you could pick between 2-3 different battery levels, just like you do with choice of engines now (avensis has 6 engines available for instance. and 9 total engine/transmission combos).

 

i was hoping you picked up some test info about the gen 2 nimh test car.
and its findings

 

here you go ken

http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-p...en2-nimh-plug-in-test-vehicle.html#post834377

 

I just read that the 2010 PHEV Prius will only be available to fleet customers and not the general public for the first several years (evaluation phase) .

Can anyone confirm?

 

Hi Ken,

Is there a definite source that it is going to be Li-ion?

If Toyota already use double pack in the gen2 plug-in, would they not put a triple pack in the gen3 plug-in? With 3 pack in parallel, 3*6.5Ah*201.6V = 3.9 kWh, I believe it can travel 20km. Besides, gen3 battery pack is also smaller in size than gen2, it should be easier to put 3 pack than gen2.

I wish for Lithium too, but I'm skeptical it can be ready in 2010. Toyota, please proof me wrong.

 

if LI is not affected by ambient temps, why is this necessary and exactly what is the amount of charge used??

my Zenn, also trickles a charge to keep my batteries topped but the amount of charge *might* add up to a penny over SEVERAL nights.

i used to monitor it religiously, but it ranged from .02 to .07 KWH over an average 10 hour period.

 

The issue is not with lithium batteries themselves, but with Tesla's approach to them.

Tesla realised that they could get a high energy density (ie long range) battery if they used cobalt electrode based LiIon commodity cells of the same type ussed to make up computer and camera battery packs. They could buy them cheap in vast quantities from established suppliers. But....

The problem was, to keep things safe from thermal runaway (ie battery fires) and long-lived, they realised they had to keep the battery at a nice 20-ish degrees C at all times. This helps the battery last a long time, but requires a constant huge cooling / heating system that permeates the battery pack and uses about 50-150 watts continuously, whether the car is in operation or not. That could add up to about 3 kWh per day just for the cooling system!

Other manufacturers are taking a different approach - by chasing battery chemistries that can tolerate low temperatures (eg lithium-titanate) or are relatively safe from thermal runaway (eg lithium iron phosphate), they won't need a constant coolant circuit.

 

so. if not plugged in, the batteries will drain away?

interesting. but lets face it. i would not pay $100,000 for a car to park it anyway. also, not quite sure i would agree with the statement that many Tesla owners were upset over an additional 10-20 cents a day