2009 Prius BIGGER and FASTER (Yeah better mileage too)

Oh you poor Niche people. Afraid that Toyota will come out with a car more people will buy! You all sound like a bunch of whiners who have an elite product that only a few own and now everyone can have one.

I had a Prius, had to get rid of it because it was too small. Had it been 4" wider, I could have kept it. Toyota is looking to sell this car to the majority, those who need the room of a Camry or other large sedan, and want the ability to get high MPG at an affordable price. Families who currently are stuck driving an SUV or Minivan because putting two car seats in a car doesn't give any room left over for a third person may look at the new model to see if they can fit in three children. The fact they are giving it more power while improving economy is great, making the car roomier inside while giving it more power while improving efficiency is even better. Had the Prius had the interior space in the front and rear seat that the Camry has, along with the front legroom, it would have remained in my fleet, but sadly, it had to go as it just wasn't practical for us. So far the Camry Hybrid that I got a week ago is fitting in much better for us.


Wah Wah Wah, grow up people is only a car.

 

if you think the prius is only a car you dont belong on this website my friend

 

I agree. For families who want to do long road trips, the current Prius cannot accommodate the luggage. A little bit bigger Prius will appeal to the masses, although wouldn't this cut into the Camry's sales? Toyota would then (to me) have two cars of similar size and price competing with one another. Or am I missing something?

 

Those of you who think Toyota is getting it wrong are ignoring Toyota's history of success. This new Prius sounds typical Toyota. Also, a foolproof way to increase sales. Better = Bigger, Faster, better mpg. It is a tried an true developement formula for most carmakers. While some automobile writers will bemoan the fact that the car is bigger, it will sell better than ever.

I bet the Gen I owners were upset that the Gen II was bigger! Did they all dream about the mpg they could of gotten if Toyota had not made the Gen II bigger?

One important thing to note, it sounds like the Gen III is not going to be heavier than the Gen II.

 

-IF- this report is accurate (and I give it a 50% possibility), I think some posters on this thread may be uninformed.

First, the claimed change of engine from the 1500 cc to the 1800 cc may be for more than power.

It could be the current 1500 cc engine is at its' limit of development, meaning Toyota can't improve it much further re emissions and efficiency. To develop a completely new 1500 cc engine would be expensive.

So I suspect the Toyota engineers choose a newish engine they currently produce to modify to the Atkinson cycle, one that allows much more design flexibility, without the large development costs. The one Tideland mentions has huge potential for tuning.

Just because the engine has a larger displacement doesn't mean it will be less efficient. In fact the numbers in the report show it's better than the current setup.

As far as cabin size, the current car is sort of "in the middle" between small and mid-size cars. If Toyota is moving it up a bit, perhaps it's to make room for a new "small hybrid" model. Part of the previously mentioned "Prius line" of models (this is not new, brought up a few months ago, and even discussed on this forum by a dealer/sales member).

The Prius is obviously a success, something that was not certain five years ago. It's time to use that success and develop a line of hybrids people can associate a name to (Toyota Prius). In other words, the current car has done its' job, demonstrating the viability of the THS II. So the next step is to move on with a line of equally successful cars, of graduated size for more market penetration.

Personally, I look forward to this, even though Pearl may become "obsolete". Hey, it's a computer controlled car, and computer obsolescence is nothing strange or new!
Pearl will continue to provide many km of happiness. In fact, I laugh now when I fill up with fuel! I was right to buy a Prius! Woopee!!

 

I have some bigger guys who work for me and they are amazed at how much roomier the '08 pruis is compared to how it looks from the outside. I don't really need more power, if I wanted a muscle car I would have bought one. But I would like to see the car use the batteries more at 45 mph or slower.

 

I don't want / need bigger faster, how about a lower cost Prius !

 

Toyota conducted survey saz,

Bigger is good : ( People wants more space and room for cargo )
Faster is good : (Hybrids no longer slow, brisk acceleration needed)
Better gas mileage: ( Gen III ,THS III, superior in every other way)

Toyota needs a bigger chassis platform so can share its platform with other Toyota Hybrid vehicles coming up in its Prius lineup.

Toyota Hybrid vehicles has to be faster than current models because
the trend is demanding a briskier accelerating and better vehicles.

Toyota Hybrids has to be more powerful because people will need to
tow and haul more weight, people and cargo comfortably.

Toyota Hybrids has to get better gas mileage than what current smalish
body and weighted Hybrid could attain. It is the III gen THS III...

In sum, Bigger+Faster+Better mileage, is where the Automoblie trend is headding.. and Toyota does not make too many mistakes..
"Toyota-Moving-Forward" Bring it on, Bigger,Faster,Better mpg Hybrids.

 

I think that it's good.

Look, I like the Prius just the way it is. It's the right size - holds 4 comfortably and has enough cargo room for day-to-day tasks. It's maybe a little too small for long road trips, but I don't do those very frequently because it has become surprisingly expensive.

I'm not in the "high MPG" crowd. I average around 46-48 MPG in the summer. Part of that is because I accelerate too quickly. Part of that is because I take lots of short trips.

I think anyone who believes that hybrids are some kind of long-term solution is kidding themselves. This is a stopgap measure that can help to mitigate an increasingly severe energy problem.

If you want to save the environment, ride the bus. But most of us (in the US) don't live where there is good bus service, which means that riding the bus is a major inconvenience.

So, when you get down to it, driving a hybrid is a compromise. It's a particularly good one - you give up pretty much nothing and use about 1/2 the energy in the process. There are always things that you could do to use less energy (bike, bus), but those require more sacrifice.

There's a problem, though: people don't see hybrids as "no-compromise". They think that hybrids are small and slow, thanks in part to popular media reports. The fact that the Prius is faster than the average vehicle from the 1980s doesn't dawn on people. The fact that it has more usable space than even the huge behemoths of the 60s (such as the Ford Galaxie) doesn't seem to matter. It's the perception, like it or not.

You see, the Prius is the flagship hybrid for the industry. It represents more than 50% of hybrid sales. When people think "hybrid", they think "Prius".

The current Prius is a compromise. You could make a smaller, more fuel efficient hybrid. Honda did it with the Insight, and we all saw how that turned out. Most of the people here own a Prius, so they think that Toyota made the right compromise.

But there are many people who still think that the Prius is too small and too slow. If Toyota can make the Prius a bit larger and a bit faster, it might go a long way towards shattering that perception. That means that more people will buy hybrids, which is a good thing.

From the NHW11 (2001-2003 in the US) to the NHW20 (2004-now), the Prius got larger and more powerful, and fuel economy got better. Now, maybe some of you wish that Toyota had kept the Echo-style body and improved fuel economy even more. But the fact is that many of the people who own a Prius today probably wouldn't if it weren't for the increased size and power.

No one is saying that the new Prius is going to be an Accord hybrid, or even a Camry Hybrid. We're talking about a vehicle that is slightly larger and moderately more powerful than the existing Prius. Most of the increased power probably comes from an upgraded electrical system, which is probably good for fuel economy. And while the new engine has larger displacement, it will also be a newer, more efficient design.

Some of the same things that allowed the NHW20 to have better economy also allowed it to have better performance.

 

I tried looking at the left curb while making a left turn and no way could I see it through the small triangle window, it was well below that. Now reverse that for your part of the world. If you are looking at the edge of the road through this small window you are turning very wide.

My point is you look where you are going to put the car, and that isn't the curb along side you, it is too late to put the car there without going backwards and having another go at it.

As far as the new Prius goes, I don't mind at all if it is a little bigger and faster and more frugal. I think by going up a little in size leaves room for a smaller, Yaris to Corolla size hybrid to come in below it, Prius compact maybe?

I have no idea why anyone would want a 2 door of the same size as the current Prius. Id rather see an MR2 size and similar layout, great fun!
When will Toyota enter a hybrid in rallying?

 

Why?

 

There are some interesting posts here on the subject of bigger and faster and better economy and whether this is good or bad, but I would just like to chip in with another observation, gleaned from various forums on this site..

The single biggest consideration is the battery - The current NiMh battery is the glory taker for Prius; without it, all else fails. Its weaknesses are size, weight and cost and the earlier promising alternative of Lithium Ion batteries appeared to be the cavalry coming over the hill to save the day for Toyota, maintaining size, reducing weight and hence performance improvement, all with better fuel economy......

Fast forward today.... that battery pack is on hold, with safety and cost issues unresolved; alternative developments in battery technology I read about here were looking at batteries similar in performance to those used in hearing aids (albeit somewhat larger!) to steal a march on the Li-Io scene (and GM in particular).....

However, none of these are resolved and the motoring public/world expects a model revision after 5 years and competitors are developing vehicles, so what must Toyota do? Plan A (Li-Io) has been shelved and while Plan B (alternative batteries) is probably still in motion, something needs to be released as a model which shows progressive range development. Ergo, beef up the performance and range of the NiMh battery (make it bigger?), make the car wider to accommodate a larger battery pack, skim some Kgs somewhere on the car and boast better performance (mainly from the battery end over higher mph) and better economy because the battery is being used 10% more.....

Is it really that simple ?
I think the 2009 version is a watershed model and the real McCoy is only coming a year or two later, when vastly improved battery packs become available and 100mpg range becomes possible through plugging the car in at home, conserving gas.

Could be totally wrong, but this seems the more obvious reason for what Toyota are doing.

 

What's the big deal. I average 50.3 to 55 miles per gallon now. I want to see 100 miles per gallon. Also my Prius run about +/- 43 mph on electric. I think my Prius is a golden lemon.

 

Maybe you need to come to US to buy car, I paid 23000 for mine and got a 3150 rebate. You can get a GM, Ford or Chrysler for less than 23000, but not many and which one gets 47 to 50 mpg. Try 5.00 per gal, and figure what a GM auto traveling 12000 at 20 mpg and at 5.00 per gal compare it to the Prius at 48Mpg at 5.00. I just can't understand where you are coming from we need to reduce or need for foreign oil, they are holding us hostage. The Prius is a great car and really a great price.:lock1::lock1:

 

Sounds like a "Hot Rod" blog to me...where are the pictures of the beautiful models next to the Prius?

Every car company does this...looking for a wider demograpihc of buyers. As great as the Prius is...things can be "improved". "Improved" is a relative term. The introduction of the automatic transmission was considered an "improvement" over a manual transmission, but not to some drivers.

I like the idea of a "Prius brand" with every vehicle type...small, hatchback, sedan, mini-van, truck, crossover, etc. Heck in few years, Toyota could produce a new Classic Pruis again for all the folks that consider it more than just a car.

Not cracking on anyone...I've felt in the past that a car was more than just a car. As everyone knows, a life changing event with a car can cause it.

 

Guess I'll chime in here. I don't like driving a big car. I'd be delighted with a smaller Prius that has the same acceleration characteristics as my '04. But if the 2010 (I presume we're really talking about the 2010 even though the thread title says 2009) is larger and more powerful than my '04 I'll be very reluctant to trade.

My Prius is bigger than I need. I've only ever used all its space twice: Once when I drove up to Winnipeg from Fargo and picked up two passengers, and the three of us with tents and camping gear for 4 nights drove up to northern Saskatchewan, north of Saskatoon; and then when I moved from Fargo to Spokane and carried as much as I could with me of the stuff I'd need before the moving van arrived.

As for power, I can merge and pass on the freeway. As for speed, I can easily go the speed limit.

What more can anybody want from a car? Answer: Even better FE if they can manage it. And regardless of technology, a smaller car can have better FE than a bigger one.

Toyota already has a bigger hybrid that delivers power over FE: The Camry hybrid.

The only thing that could lure me into a bigger, more powerful Prius would be if it's a PHEV-40.

 

The problem Toyota has is that they persevered for far too long in their R&D with a cobalt-oxide based lithium-ion battery, which has the unfortunate tendency of occasionally blowing up or catching fire.

In terms of Lithium battery safety and cycle life, companies like GM and BYD are miles ahead of Toyota right now because they are working with lithium-iron phosphate, which is a much safer, more robust and cheaper (ie superior) battery chemistry.

Toyota are scrabling to catch up with their rivals by switching to a LiFePO4 approach, but this will take time, so they are currently extending the use of the NiMH battery in the Prius.

When they do eventually make the leap from NiMH to lithium, expect a solid increase in fuel economy, as NiMH batteries can only give back out about 60-70% of the energy you originally put into them, while the modern lithium chemistries can manage about 98-99%. Toyota have suggested they will have lithium batteries in a hybrid by 2010.

 

Thanks Clett, most informative and enlightening. You mentioned LiFePO4 approach, but are they also looking at Zinc Air do you know?

 

I highly doubt it will be the 2009 model.

ZC1

 

I take that to mean the 2011 model year, on car lots in the fall of 2010. I guess I can drive my 2004 Prius, for road trips, and my Zap Xebra, for daily in-town driving, for another 2 1/2 years.