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2005 vs 2006 audio aux in possibilities

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Audio and Electronics' started by castlecain, Dec 2, 2005.

  1. castlecain

    castlecain Junior Member

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    DanMan,
    Here is more information on our topic of discussion.
    I have been on the phone with a tech from Audiovox today for some real
    good information about XM radio integration to the Prius radio, and SMART
    ADAPTER information in general, and new products to come in the next few months.
    First, some clarifications. My earlier posts about the XM UNIVERSAL SMART
    ADAPTER were based on the Press Release on those internet sites I referenced.
    Today I discovered after my conversation with the tech,
    that looking at the picture of the
    UNIVERSAL RDS SMART ADAPTER to come from Audiovox and Terk in the first
    quarter of 2006 gave me cause for error. The picture on the press release is
    in error. It showes a hard wired connector. There will be no hard wired audio connector as shown on the Mobilewhack sites use of the picture of the RDS SMART ADAPTER.

    The RDS ADAPTER device is a modulator interface (hard wired or not to the rf front
    end of the radio), but a modulator just the same, a very clean one as told to me by the tech.
    This new device will allow XM Radio channel and song data to be broadcast from the SMART ADAPTER
    to the radio if the radio uses RDS feature. So, in conjunction with an XM1000D
    tuner, it allows a clean instalation with artist and song readout on the factory
    radio, using RDS technology. Channel changing etc. I cannot comment on, because I didn't ask, but it seems a difficult task from a standpoint of user interface and the way the Prius radio is set up. Could there be a remote control
    involved?

    But, that is not the exciting thing about the conversation.
    Another product,
    called the SDA XMDTLK, IS a hard wired solution like many of the SMART
    ADAPTERS now being sold for various aftermarket radio's which are satellite
    ready. And from what I seem to be hearing the tech say, the new product
    available in a couple of months, will be for Toyota Radios specifically.
    This new product will be a hard wired, non modulator solution for XM radio for
    the Toyota,
    using the XM1000D tuner. The product will include the adapter, the tuner, the
    antenna, specifically for OEM Toyota Radios. It will PROBABLY be a one purchase
    solution selling for about 199.00 retail, and may also be applicable to rebates from
    XM with purchase, or with subscription. Don't know all the details, but this was
    hinted at.
    So, soon two new devices for integration of XM Radio will exist....one, the RDS
    SMART ADAPTOR using the XM1000D tuner.
    Two, a hard wired non modulated XM1000D tuner and interface called the
    model XMDTLK.
    They have not tested the Prius radio, but are in testing phase for other Toyota
    factory radios. The subject still has little of the ambigious, but
    depending on my getting my hands of one or both of the above two, and trying
    it on the Prius, I can report no futher. Maybe they will turn out to be NOT as
    good a solution as some of the others on the market, but I can say that after
    an email to Audiovox, I actually got a call from a technical employee to answer my
    questions, and my email got to him from customer service in a matter of minutes! That in itself is a rare thing in the consumer world today. So I certainly will
    try to support Audiovox whenever I can.
    Rod
     
  2. DanMan32

    DanMan32 Senior Member

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    I told you. RDS is an FM subchannel. I just remembered, it used to be called SCA. I have to look into it as I do believe it uses the age old 64K subcarrier that SCA used to use. Stereo uses a 19K pilot tone subcarrier that syncs the stereo decode, and I believe the L-R signal is on a 36K subcarrier.

    I don't see how the XM/Sirius can be controlled via the stock radio/steering wheel controls any more than one could be controlled through a regular FM modulator.

    The direct connect Smartadapter should work if they build it right. All the others that have failed either with NAV or failed with or without a CD changer probably skimmed on specs.
     
  3. castlecain

    castlecain Junior Member

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    Yes, more information from Audiovox confirms that the universal one is going
    to be controlled by a remote control which comes with the smart adaptor, but the other dedicated hard wired one specifically for the Toyota series radios will be
    controlled by the head unit, and come packaged with the XM1000D tuner and antenna. As I said there are still some things which are a little ambiguous (first of them being my ambiguous spelling of ambiguous in the last post), but any lack of facts is probably due to them not wanting to make the entire information available until it's on the market. Posting of a picture of a hard wired unit on that Moblewhack site to represent the new universal adapter led me to make the wrong conclusion. Press releases are not for
    techs, but for the general public. Maybe soon I can get the exact specs of the one which is hard wired. It may be out to market before the universal one. I don't want a modulated solution, and I may even opt for a simple aux-in solution for my Roady II. As I said, there are good things about having the little Roady II head unit available for view all the time, and having a way to get it into the system cleanly and cheaply is certainly
    better than the modulator method I am using now. When I go to another city
    I always here a mixing of an off air stations and I hate changing the modulator
    freq sometimes twice a day.
    So, maybe we should try to figure out how the 2006 aux in method is used at the radio head, what pins are used, and if it actually uses the cd port etc. I have yet to meet that tech at Mark Jacobson Toyota, although the parts guys I did meet tried to help and I appreciate their efforts. I did view a diagram of the connector and the plug on the end of the aux-in cable and it seemed to be a four wire connector. How many pins are on the connector for the disk changer? And, on the 2006, does it
    trigger recognition by the head unit simply by having a load on the circuit when
    something is plugged into the mini jack?
    We will be able to test one soon I hope, and determine the differences in the
    head units from 2004 to 2006. Maybe the Triangle Area Prius Club mentioned will help us come up with some answers.
    Thanks for the help.
    Rod
     
  4. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

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    he's working on it. he's going to be in contact with the manufacturer of the head unit to get a schematic for the tape player interface. the disc-tape button is replaced on the 06 with a disc-aux, so he's going to try to disable the tape player and hack an aux-in that way.

    we just checked out an 06 barcelona red this afternoon... and stupidly enough i forgot my ipod.

    but the manual button on the head unit is there.

    we'll see what we can do with this info.
     
  5. DanMan32

    DanMan32 Senior Member

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    I doubt you'll have to disable the tape player. They labeled the buttons the way they did simply because the aux doesn't exist on one, and the tape doesn't exist on the other. No different than SAT being added to AM, even though it isn't labeled as such.
     
  6. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

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    dan, we're trying to use the tape player input on our 05 for a way to hack in an aux input. we never use the tape player, and it's a way to get into the audio system, and the button is there to do the switching. we don't want to splice into anything since there is the possibility of generating extra noise, he wants a clean input.

    we just came up with the idea of going this way this afternoon, it's still in development shall we say. we'll see when he gets the schematics where this goes.
     
  7. DanMan32

    DanMan32 Senior Member

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    Brilliant! However, depending where in the audio path you tap in, you probably won't get any more fidelity than tape, unless you manage to get past the tape EQ, but before the input switch. Note though, it was discovered that the JBL amp changes its preamp EQ and level based on the input selection.
     
  8. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

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    he says the digital source should make for a decent sound, better than tape anyway. may not be as crystal clear as a cd, but certainly better than no aux input at all or paying all that money for one.

    (and you called my idea brilliant, i feel so smart! :p)
     
  9. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

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    well i guess we'll see what happens with the tape player hack soon, we're off to sleep now. very tired...
     
  10. DanMan32

    DanMan32 Senior Member

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    Thing is though, even a tape adapter has less fidelity and more noise than a true aux-in, and you are using the same circuitry. The only thing it sounds like you are eliminating is the magnetic head to head coupling. The EQ compensates for the limitations of tape, and filters out what tape can't produce.

    But it would be interesting to see your results. As I said, it was a brilliant thought.
     
  11. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

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    hmm. we'll have to look into it then. there's got to be some way around that.

    thanks for the input. :)
     
  12. castlecain

    castlecain Junior Member

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    On the aux-in project:
    Remember to ask about the standard radio on the 2005. There is no
    manual tape/cd button. So, if we find a way to integrate some aux-in
    to the changer port on that radio, how would it be switched. My theory is
    that some loading of the circuit may make the steering wheel mode control
    include the modified cd changer port if there is something there.
    Or, are we going to have to have the radio communicate with the port?
    I would be willing to try to emulate something in the changer then add
    aux in through whatever pins get the left right audio from the changer,
    but can't get any information on the radio or the changer.
    There was a person selling what he said was the Prius six disk changer on
    ebay the other day. He gave the part number correctly, but his picture
    had no resemblence to the changer on a site which had a picture of one
    with the part number he listed. It had a cable, instructions, and the original
    box and was said to be new. It did have the Toyota logo on it.
    The thing went for around 47.00. I would have bought it and looked at
    the circuit the radio recognizes if it had resembled the changer picture linked
    to the actual Toyota parts number. He didn't answer my email question with
    any authority, so I didn't buy it.

    I think the darn thing can be reverse engineered for 50.00 bucks or less.

    Anyway, I guess that will have to be the way to go to get it switched.

    Rod
     
  13. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

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    oh yeah... the pacakage 4 doesn't have the tape player in it. bah.

    well, he goes back to work on tuesday, i'll remind him to get those diagrams from TIS for you.
     
  14. 200Volts

    200Volts Member

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    If memory serves me correct, I read on Coastal Dave's unit that an AuxIn can be triggered by pressing the AM button twice. I don't know if this is any help here.
     
  15. DanMan32

    DanMan32 Senior Member

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    Let's not forget TX+/TX- that is the AVC network. The buttons you push are transmitted on those lines for an added device to receive and act upon.
     
  16. keydiver

    keydiver New Member

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    Which may also make it *possible* that Audiovox, or others, could make an interface unit that would allow you to control the XM, or other devices, using the steering wheel controls, if the digital signals from those buttons are also repeated out onto the bus. Nothings as simple as it used to be.....
     
  17. DanMan32

    DanMan32 Senior Member

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    If by on the bus you mean out of the aux/changer port, I believe so. That's the only way I can see devices connected here can appear integrated into the system, and be controlled.
     
  18. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

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    turns out he has to call the company, toyota doesn't have the specs for the actual head units. he's not sure he'll be able to get any info out of whatever company makes them but he'll give it a shot after the whole holiday mess is over.
     
  19. castlecain

    castlecain Junior Member

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    It's probably time for us to enter DIY mode, because only those of us who
    are very interested in doing this ourselves are really going to get it done
    as quickly as we might want.
    I don't live that far from you, and if someone in the group, including me keeps looking on ebay and maybe some other sources, (auto parts liquidators?) we
    might be able to find a standard radio (I suspect the changer port on all of them
    are exactly the same), and study the pin out and see what Audiovox and some of
    the others are doing to make compatible interfaces.
    Connectors may be available from Digi-Key corporation...I have their latest
    catalogue. DanMan may be able to teach some of us a little more about
    the protocol. I may be able to at least identify the pinouts on my workbench.
    I am not that current on the technology but I can understand it once I find
    some publications to read. Have your husband be on the look out for a chance to buy a pulled and replaced unit which has been broken due to, say, a bad cd drive, and I will pay for it (within junk price reason). I don't want to pull mine just for testing. And, if I could get one such as above, I could keep it on the bench while I
    talk with another tech on this forum and scope the outputs. Don't know if a
    40mhz dual trace scope will tell us much. Comments welcome.
    Rod
     
  20. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

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    Hi Rod,

    well, all units that crap out end up either going back for warranty or for out-of warranty exchange. so getting one from the dealer is out.

    you can try your luck at a junkyard, but don't plan on paying any kind of reasonable price. the head units themselves are in the $1500 range.

    he is going to pull ours for testing, but he's not going to try to map the pins himself. he will not crack the warranty seal until he has a wiring diagram from harman becker.